Do you really think I'm giving up any horsepower?

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

quote:

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Originally posted by Moneymaker:
PS, with 10-30 it will be high. Try some 5w30 GTX.

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Or even 5-20 like my new truck takes. Hi oil pressure is like hi-blood pressure. It's hard on the pump, so some blood thinning is in order.

Alex, I'd be willing to bet that your engine's have generous bearing clearances, and are not "tight".

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

LOL

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

I'd change it now to some 5w20 or 30. Usually once you've done the 20 minute cam breakin is the time for the first oil change. Good luck with it,

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

quote:

---

Originally posted by bluestreek:
Does anyone know why they don't sell a high volume/stock pressure pump? Is that what a stock pump is? You can get a high volume or high pressure, but both deliver over 80 psi. By the way, I used a standard Fomoco 289 pump in my 331 and it idles at 40 psi and tops out at 60 psi with 10W30.

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Because High Volume/High Pressure pumps will empty the oil pan by pumping all the oil to the top end.

When you're looking for maximum power, it's important not to have too much oil circulating in the crankcase, especially with a wet-sump system. Like ring drag, windage is a parasitic loss that reduces the power that's available to accelerate the car. A common mistake is to order the biggest, baddest oil pump in the catalog. We use a standard volume pump because we know from our flow tests that a standard pump provides adequate lubrication for our sportsman engines. That's because we machine and assemble our cranks and rods with minimum side clearance and restrict the flow of oil to the top end. The clearance between the rods and crankshaft cheeks greatly affects the total oil flow, much like a metering jet. Wrist pin galling is usually the first sign of inadequate oil flow.

You can check out all their tech articles at
http://www.rehermorrison.com/

That was from Tech Talk Article #33

SteveW

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moneymaker:
And to think we used to run an extra quart of oil and 50 wt at that.

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I changed my way of thinking on oil weights a few years ago, when my 170K mi. truck engine developed a little noise on real cold startups even with 70 psi oil pressure. I was already using Synthetic oil in my racecar so I decided to switch from ol
Castrol 10W40 to synthetic10W30 in the truck. The oil pressure dropped 10 psi, but the noise went away altogther. It now has 270K mi. and is still running strong and uses no oil!
The science of engine lubrication has come a long way in the last ten years. I only recommend 50wt to my heavy Chebbie buddies.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

quote:

---

Originally posted by bluestreek:
I read somewhere (don't remember the link) that Nascar has been gradually dropping the pressure to their engines down to 50 psi in the last couple of years. If they can run an engine with these pressures at 7000-9000 rpms for 500 miles then it must be OK. I agree that more time has to be put into clearances, windage, and oilpan design than worrying about how much volume or pressure you can force through the engine.

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Because it would offer little benefit. An oil pump is a positive displacement
pump with the rotors sweeping out a fixed volume of oil each revolution. Spin
the pump twice as fast, get twice the flow rate of oil. Pressure is a by-
product of that flow into a restriction (bearings, oil galleries, etc.).
Along the way, the pressure drops wherever oil flow is bled off but the
maximum supply pressure an oil pump can provide is set by a spring-loaded
bypass valve. Once the oil pressure exceeds the spring pressure, the bypass
opens and the excesss flow is returned to the oil pan. When this happens,
little or no additional flow reaches the bearings. Note that some pumps will
reach their maximum output at a relatively low RPM, say 2000 to 2500 RPM.
Also note that flow always seeks the path of least resistance. If there is
no resistance, there is no pressure increase. For instance, if you break a
pushrod in a 351C and the lifter pops out of place, a big hole is opened
in the oil gallery that provide little restriction and oil pressure plummets
like a rock. Over an engine's life, as bearings wear, restriction opens
and oil pressure will be reduced. Also, as the oil pump wears, it may not
sweep out as much oil (leaks it out).

So much for pump output. Now what does an engine need (more specifically
what do engine bearings need)? The goal of pressure fed lubrication is
to float the rotating bits (rods, mains) in a film of oil so they don't
touch on and wear against the stationary metal bits. The amount of
lubrication pressure required is proportional to load and load goes up
with RPM, so you want an increasing pressure with RPM. Smokey's old rule
of thumb for Chevys was 10 psi per 1000 RPM. Load also goes up with power
output. An engine making 200 HP at 2000 RPM requires more lubrication than
one making 50 HP at the same RPM. What an individaul engine needs depends
upon a lot of factors (bearing clearance, bearing diameters, bearing widths,
oil pathways, leakage points, RPM, properties of the oil being used,
temperature, how long the engine has to operate at a given RPM, etc.).
If the engine is a bleeder, oil pressure at the rear bearings can be much
less than at the front. In cases like that, you may need to increase the
pump output (via a high volume pump) to compensate and/or restrict oil
(via precisely metered restrictors in the oil galleries).

A high volume pump simply has larger (typically longer) rotors. A high
pressure pump simply has a stiffer spring (can also be a shimmed spring).
A high pressure/high volume oil pump has both. Anyway, back to your original
question. A high volume, low pressure pump would simply open the bypass
at an earlier RPM where the flow is likely not required but would not
provide the needed pressure at higher RPM. Better would be a standard
volume pump with high pressure relief spring which would give low pressure
and flow at low RPM and high pressure and flow at high RPM. However,
depending upon the engine and usage, a standard volume high pressure pump
might not provide enough flow. In those cases, a high volume and high
pressure pump is required. I can think of several situations where one
might be of benefit. One is to provide adequate oil pressure over the life
of an engine. New, the pump might be overkill but, as the engine (and oil
pump itself) wears, the high volume pump may provide a measure of safety.
Alternatively, you can run a heavier weight oil on high mileage engines.
Another is for engines that run at elevated RPM for long periods of time,
like circle track or endurance racing, where oil temperature climbs and
pressure drops. When the oil starts to get hot and thins out (like it
might near the end of a race) the deeper gears are able to sweep out a
larger volume of the thinner oil, providing better lubrication. A guy I
know in Europe has a Pantera and has this problem. He can run 130+ MPH
for long periods of time on the Autobahns and Autostradas but 10 minutes
or so into a run his oil temperature starts creeping up and the oil pressure
starts dropping. He ends up having to limit his RPM to keep temperatures
and pressures in check. A high volume, high pressure pump would be a help
there, as would a good oil cooler. A taller final drive ratio wouldn't hurt
either. Another application where high volume and pressure might be of use
would be supercharged and turbocharged engines which can make greater power
at relatively (compared to normally aspirated engines of equivalent size)
low RPM. Long stroke stroker motors might also fall into this category.
Also, any accessory that puts an additional demand on the oiling system would
be a candidate for a high volume and high pressure pump. Examples would be
external oil coolers and superchargers which feed off an engine's oil supply.

Understand that high pressure and high volume volume are relative terms.
With the stock oil pump, the bypass in my little 215 cube Buick aluminum V8
opens at only 33 lbs while my sister's old Mitsubishi would put out over 100
PSI. A high volume/high pressure oil pump for a Buick 215 might be considered
a standard volume pump in a 351C. For a specific engine, you realy have to
defer to experience. Do engines like yours, when used in a manner similar
to the way you plan to use it, exhibit wear or failure patterns that might
benefit from increased lubrication. High volume pumps are standard issue
on performance FE's and I know Alex mentioned that every small block Ford he
builds gets a Melling high volume pump and that's on a Windsor which has
about the cleanest oiling system I've seen on a domestic V8. Alex, is your
preference for high volume pumps to help out at high rpm or as clearances
open as the engine wears or ???

If contemplating a high volume pump, you may want to consider a gated and
baffled oil pan with greater than stock capacity. The trickest pump in the
world won't save you if the oil sloshes away from the pick-up and sucks air.
One of the guys in the Pantera club learned the hard way that a stock Pantera
can pull 1G on a set of slicks. He also learned the oil will climb the side
of the pan and starve the pick-up, resulting in a spun bearing. After
rebuilding the engine, he now runs a flat bottom 10 quart road race gated
and baffled oil pan. Pay attention to drain back as well. You can elongate
and smooth the drain holes and valley. The old Boss 302 Trans Am motors even
ran drain lines from the valve covers to the pan.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

quote:

---

Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Man Dan, you sure like to type!

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BaaaHAAAA!!! LMFAO!!!