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  Caltracs

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Author Topic:   Caltracs
zepheracer
Journeyman

Posts: 38
From: Butte, Mt.
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 01-20-2003 12:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for zepheracer        Reply w/Quote
Wondering if anyone is using Caltracs. Have 67
Mustang, 28-9 slicks and cheap slapper bars.
Sixty foot times are usually in the 1.66-1.68
range, 7.44 to 7.48 in the eighth mile. Are the sixty foot times about right for the et
or could it improve.

steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 01-20-2003 12:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66        Reply w/Quote
Welcome to M&M zegheracer,

Your 60'rs are in line with your et. We still run slapper bars and pull 1.45 60'ers with a few tricks. Caltracs are fine, but you can do it w/o them if you want.

SteveW

kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 7251
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 01-20-2003 09:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus        Reply w/Quote
Welcome to M&M

60' times appear fine to me also.

Personally, I owuldnt spend the money on Caltracs yet. I would wait till the 60' times got quicker, or, if they become real erratic. Then the shocks and springs may still be the first thing to mess with (at least that's what I would do first).

------------------
Rob Hetzler
member #773
'69 mustang, 351C, best 9.97 @ 133 mph 1/4, 6.18 @ 109.9 1/8, 1.319 60'
'70 mustang, flintstone power
'93 F150 Lightning 15.33 @ 87 mph, completely stock with 167k miles
'60 Falcon wagon project car
'99 Pro Et track champion
'00 Mod ET R-up (with new car)
'01 5th place Top ET, 7th place Mod ET

My Photo Page

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-20-2003 12:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
Welcome to M&M !
Depending on the rest of your combo I'd say you are just OK.
Mid 7's in the 1/8 if all is well scienced and efficiant should have 60 foots in the mid to high 1.50's.
Our 3700 lb P/SA now IFI/A stock short block convert goes 1.69-1.72 60 foot.
It only ET's 8.20's to 8.30's in the 1/8th.
Tony's Capri 60 foots 1.60 to 1.62 at 7.80 to 7.90 in the 1/8th. Both cars on 9 inch tires.
So you see, there is considerably more available in your car.
I have found that Cal-Tracs will pick up the 60 foot almost always on a leaf sprung Mustang over hoppers.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

Hans olsson
Gearhead

Posts: 936
From: Sweden
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 01-20-2003 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hans olsson        Reply w/Quote
Welcome to M&M zepheracer .
Alex that is so true,our mustang 60 foots 1.56-1.59 at 7.40-7.50 in the 1/8th.With 9 inch tires,Cal-Tracs and 3450Lbs.
Hans

------------------

  • 71 Mach1 351c
  • E/SA 11.89-110 mph
  • F/SA 11.76-111 mph

n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 3058
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-20-2003 04:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike        Reply w/Quote
ZepherRacer,

These are SuperStocker racers that have VERY scienced out suspensions with relocated engines, ladder bars, racing leaf springs, HIGH stall converters perfectly matched to their cams for ideal launching, etc.

My car does okay off the bottle, and has run a best of 7.48 in the 1/8. 60ft's are almost always in the mid 1.6's.

If you're going to compete on a heads-up level in an arena such as superstock, you'll need to spend the time and money optimizing EVERYTHING. Once that is done, the 60 fts will drop into the 1.5's at your hp level.

For now, simply going to a set of Caltracs isn't going to make it happen. You might get a scant amount of improvement, but there won't be any large gains at your power level from this change alone.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

F551
Gearhead

Posts: 284
From: Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-20-2003 09:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for F551        Reply w/Quote
Hi zepheracer - this is a great place - lots of good info!

Mike - no relocated engines in Stock/Super Stock

Our best 60 is 1.39 with Caltracs and factory 5 leaf springs. Had CE trac bars, which were OK - Caltracs better. Would try unbolting sway bar with looser shocks in front.

------------------
Fred
68 Mustang 500CID/Powerglide - "No Tubs"
86 Mustang GT Cobra

steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 01-20-2003 09:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66        Reply w/Quote
Clamp the rear leafs, loosen up the front end, loose the sway bars, lower the front shock perches, put the battery in the trunk, add some ballast, use Ranch shocks in the back and 90-10s in the front. Set your rear pinion angle to -6 degrees etc.

I gotta try CalTracs someday, but I'm just too cheap.

SteveW

F551
Gearhead

Posts: 284
From: Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-20-2003 10:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for F551        Reply w/Quote
Steve - "lower front shock perches" - you mean the top mounts? What is the theory, just increasing shock length?

Thanks

------------------
Fred
68 Mustang 500CID/Powerglide - "No Tubs"
86 Mustang GT Cobra

steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 01-20-2003 10:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by F551:
Steve - "lower front shock perches" - you mean the top mounts? What is the theory, just increasing shock length?

Thanks


Yes,

Lowering the perches gives the front end more upward travel before it has to pick up the wheels. The height of the shock is the suspension travel limiter. It lets some weight transfer to the rear so the slicks can bite before they have to lift the front suspension (heavy stock drms in our case) off the track.
TomP was the one that suggested this a couple years ago and it's a great tip. Just remove your perches and make new ones out of 1/4" thick steel plate or 3/8" thick aluminum.

SteveW

steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 01-20-2003 10:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66        Reply w/Quote

[This message has been edited by steve'66 (edited 01-20-2003).]

steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 01-20-2003 10:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
You can see the extra suspension travel in this pic,

Compare it to Alex's wheels up pic, he has to limit his travel to control (tame) the wheelie.

SteveW


zepheracer
Journeyman

Posts: 38
From: Butte, Mt.
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 01-20-2003 11:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for zepheracer        Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the posts. Car has the usual tricks, no sway bar, 90-10s adjustable rear shocks,battery in trunk ect. Even with the rear shockc set on the stiffest setting the body really separates, spends more time going up than foward. Have an 8 inch converter, 4.56's, c-4, leave full throttle on the two step at 2800 rpms. Ran as quick as 7.24 @ 96 at a lower altitude track and still only had a 1.62 sixty foot.

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-21-2003 12:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by n2oMike:
ZepherRacer,

These are SuperStocker racers that have VERY scienced out suspensions with relocated engines, ladder bars, racing leaf springs, HIGH stall converters perfectly matched to their cams for ideal launching, etc.


Of the bunch, only my 65 Mustang is a Superstocker and it has 1.37 60 foot times.
It has a ladder link full floater rear supension, but no engine set back as it is not legal.
I didn't make any referance to my 65, only the two Fox bodied cars which have coil springs in the rear.
Stock eliminator has very specifice rules with severly limited modifications allowed.
Yes, as I stated all of the cars have "very" scienced out suspensions, but nothing exotic.
Trick bushings front and rear,stock control arms, adjustable SUPER premium shocks or struts on all four corners, air bags and well engineered traction devices.
Hans' 71 car and Steve W's 66 have leaf spring rear suspensions with Cal Tracs or hopper bars and both leave very well with 60 foots comperable to their ET's. Steve's will get better yet with some new springs on the rear.
My point was that you are "leaving money on the table". Your car witheh horsepower that it has, is capable of better 60 foots based on the 1/8 mile ET. That translates into quicker overall ET. Whether Cal-Tracs will help .02 or .002 I can't say for sure without knowing more about the rest of the car. Shocks are very, very important as are rear springs.

Nine times out of ten I can make ANY stock type suspension car leave better than it does now.
No brag, just fact!

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 01-21-2003 12:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by zepheracer:
Even with the rear shockc set on the stiffest setting the body really separates, spends more time going up than foward.

This took some convincing by Alex, but you have to CLAMP the rear springs. Turn the leaf springs into a mono leaf spring. That will prevent leaf seperation and control the rise of the rear suspension. Also letting the front suspension rise higher will transfer more weight quicker to the rear. It's all about having the car make one motion up in the front and gone, versus up in the back, then up in the front then gone.

Like Mikee says "try it, you'll like it"

SteveW

n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 3058
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-21-2003 11:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike        Reply w/Quote
Steve,
That dropped shock mount sounds like a good idea... as long as it isn't a streeter. A street car could bottom the suspension out when hitting a pothole, which would bottom the shock out... ripping it loose, and denting the hood. (I used to have REALLY stiff roadrace type shocks on the front of my car years ago, and put a couple dents in the hood hitting potholes. They didn't bottom out, but the flimsy way they are mounted up top allowed them to pull loose.) You'll want to do some re-engineering if they get lowered, and maybe come up with a lowered bump-stop.

Alex,
About moving the engine... I thought I remembered you talking about moving the engine to get large headers to fit correctly... and also when trying to sell that oilpan that would no longer fit due to having the engine in a different place. I guess it just got moved 'within the rules', and not significantly set back.

About clamping the fronts of the springs. I made some clamps, went to put them on, and there wasn't room up front! I tried installing them on the rear half of the springs, but it just made the car wheelhop. I may have been able to clamp the rear portion of the front half of the spring, but the tire comes really close to the leaf up front. Of course my car is a 4-speed that gets launched WFO, and automatic cars don't have to absorb quite as much of a shockload... so a stiffer rear suspension might work better for them.

Disclaimer...

I know, with an adjustable clutch adjusted on the LOOSE side, the stiffer rear suspension would probably work better... but I'm not into sanding and replacing clutch disks every 10-12 runs. I'll give away that 0.05 seconds in the first 60ft to get 2-3 service free years out of a clutch disk. (Mine has served well for 3 years now, and is going right back in. I might sand it a little though.) I might try a loose setting a time or two next season (if I need to beat certain Chevys) but I plan to keep it fairly tight the rest of the time.

Raising three small kids doesn't leave much time or money for working on the hotrod... but our 14 month old is daddy's lil' girl! I might get more competitive again when the time and funds allow... (Before getting married, I used to live on the cheap and spend at least every other paycheck in it's entirety on the mustang) I lived in a $275/month apt. (including utilities) usually kept the mustang at mom's, never paid more than $2800 for a vehicle, purchased cheap clothes and food, and went RACING most weekend nights.

Ok, I'll stop rambling now....

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

67Coupster
Gearhead

Posts: 206
From: GA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 01-21-2003 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 67Coupster        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
This took some convincing by Alex, but you have to CLAMP the rear springs.

SteveW


Caltrac told me the same thing when I described what my car was doing when I dumped the clutch. Told me to clamp the rear portion of the springs and set the shocks to the tightest setting. It slowed the separation down and gave the rear tires time to bite the track. I also added 75lbs out back which didn't hurt any. I'm running 6.90's 1/8 with a 1.50 60'.

------------------
James
67 Coupe
393W, 4 Speed,

[This message has been edited by 67Coupster (edited 01-21-2003).]

67Coupster
Gearhead

Posts: 206
From: GA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 01-21-2003 01:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 67Coupster        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
This took some convincing by Alex, but you have to CLAMP the rear springs.

SteveW


------------------
Oops

James
67 Coupe
393W, 4 Speed,

[This message has been edited by 67Coupster (edited 01-21-2003).]

F551
Gearhead

Posts: 284
From: Manitoba, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-21-2003 11:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for F551        Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the explanation Steve!

I just might have a spare chunk of Aluminum

------------------
Fred
68 Mustang 500CID/Powerglide - "No Tubs"
86 Mustang GT Cobra

steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 01-22-2003 12:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66        Reply w/Quote
Fred,

It was one of our earlier mods, and I think it helps. It's cheap to try, I've actually added a little height with spacers above the flat plate. But it still adds about an inch to the suspension travel upwards. All I know for sure is it won't hurt getting some weight transfered to the slicks.

SteveW

WARDF
Journeyman

Posts: 44
From: Cecilia, Ky. USA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 01-25-2003 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for WARDF        Reply w/Quote
Alex after reading through this, would it better to run a mono leaf or are there mono leafs out there made for drag racing?

mustangboy
Gearhead

Posts: 1343
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 01-25-2003 07:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangboy        Reply w/Quote
Good tips guys but I'm confused with the clamping of the rear leaf springs.Which part do you clamp?In front of the rear end only,behind the rearend only,or the whole thing?I also have CE adjustable rears,what should I set them on?DO I try to limit body seperation?

------------------
1968 mustang j-code [email protected] 306cu.in, stock ported heads,weiand exellerator,650 holley DP,hedman hedders,comp 292 Magnum cam,4-speed,8 inch 4.11 detroit locker

steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9835
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 01-25-2003 09:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66        Reply w/Quote
Try clamping just the front of the sprigs ahead of the axle first. Try the shocks on the medium setting at first, then stiffer until it bounces off the line. When that happens it's too tight, so back off a notch. You want to limit rear seperation, but not so much that it lifts the rear tires off the ground. Also the more weight you can transfer to the rear the more you can limit rear seperation for a up in front and off motion, in stead of an up in back then up (a little) in front, then off, Video tape your car launching and study it in slow-mo. Good luck,

SteveW

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-26-2003 03:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by n2oMike:

Alex,
About moving the engine... I thought I remembered you talking about moving the engine to get large headers to fit correctly... and also when trying to sell that oilpan that would no longer fit due to having the engine in a different place. I guess it just got moved 'within the rules', and not significantly set back.

Ok, I'll stop rambling now....

Good Luck!


We lowered the engine one inch Mike.
I guess technically that is relocating it.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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