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Author Topic:   Cam question
bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1289
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 01-08-2003 11:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How does different lash settings on a solid cam effect the way a camshaft performs ? and how much change would it take to make a difference ? I forgot.

Thanks,
Dan

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1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank and girdle, 5.4 H-beams, Forged slugs, ported TFS alum. heads, ported Stealth 8020 intake, CompCams Xtreme Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi, BFG Drag radials..

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 33371
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 01-08-2003 12:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
By opening and closing the lash, you are effectively changing how big the lifter sees the cam lobe as being. Remember, at the time of lash, there is no movement of the lifter. If it was set at zero lash, the lifter would be moved to total lift of the cam lobe. With a .010" lash, the cam has to take up that .010" before the lifter starts to move.

In short, big lash makes the cam seem smaller, little lash makes it seem larger. {or as big as it actually is, really}

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-08-2003 12:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The smaller the cam, the less variance it takes to see a difference.
Under .500 lift then a .005 change would show you something.
Over .500 lift you would need to change .008 to .010 to see any significant change in performance.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1289
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 01-08-2003 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok, does that mean by increasing the lash from .012 to say .022, you will decrease the duration and lift and increase opening rate of the valves?, or is .010 or less just too small a change to have any real effect on anything but lift.

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1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank and girdle, 5.4 H-beams, Forged slugs, ported TFS alum. heads, ported Stealth 8020 intake, CompCams Xtreme Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi, BFG Drag radials..

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 01-08-2003 06:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It would shorten duration and lift.
But wouldn't that be hard on the valve train?

I could see thightening it a little to increase duration and lift just to see if a bigger cam might help.

SteveW

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-08-2003 07:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Only if you widen the lash say .030 or more would it be detrimental Steve.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1289
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 01-08-2003 07:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was thinking about trying some different settings. The cam is 236/242 duration @.050 with .589/.602 gross lift. I've been running .015 int. and .018 exh. lash. What I was thinking was maybe trying more lash on the intake to maybe gain a little torque and cylinder pressure on the low end, since the TrickFlow heads peak out at about .550 lift anyway.

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1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank and girdle, 5.4 H-beams, Forged slugs, ported TFS alum. heads, ported Stealth 8020 intake, CompCams Xtreme Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi, BFG Drag radials..

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 33371
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 01-09-2003 07:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bluestreek:
What I was thinking was maybe trying more lash on the intake to maybe gain a little torque and cylinder pressure on the low end, since the TrickFlow heads peak out at about .550 lift anyway.

Instead of fiddling with the lash, you should advance the cam to maximize your bottom end.

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-09-2003 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Loosen them puppies to about .032 man!!!!!

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1289
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 01-09-2003 10:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
Instead of fiddling with the lash, you should advance the cam to maximize your bottom end.


The cam already has 4 degrees ground in. That's more than enough! I'm not doing this to maximize the cam, just the heads. The cam is already dialed in where it makes a wide torque curve.

[QOUTE]Originally posted by Alex:Loosen them puppies to about .032 man!!!!!

That's what I'm talkin' about!!

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1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank and girdle, 5.4 H-beams, Forged slugs, ported TFS alum. heads, ported Stealth 8020 intake, CompCams Xtreme Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi, BFG Drag radials..

[This message has been edited by bluestreek (edited 01-09-2003).]

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-09-2003 10:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Most of MM's cams are specified with a .024-.026 lash. Last year I tested 4 cams in one week and they were all the same recomended lash.
They all responded to some lash tweaks. These are 55mm roller bearing rollers that do not twist. My valve train harmonics are phenominal as we have spent about a gazillion dollars optimizing everything.
We run the best one at about .030 normally and as high as .040 on KILL. It's not to make the cam smaller either. Trust me on this one.
I would not recomend running over .035 on your cam Blue, as a steady diet, but occasionally just to see how quick you can go "shouldn't" hurt anything if your parts are up to it.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1289
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 01-09-2003 12:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the detailed info, Alex.

I'm just putting together a list of "things to try" for the upcoming race season. Once I get a few baseline runs, I'll start tweaking the induction combo, along with some exhaust changes. I'm also working on a set of used 58cc AFR 185 heads that will get a shaft rocker system. Hopefully the little stroker will hold together long enough for me to get a few e.t. and mph figures to compare. I enjoy the hands-on tweaking as much as i like the driving.

Hopefully all this talk of war and increasing fuel prices won't spoil the fun.

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1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank and girdle, 5.4 H-beams, Forged slugs, ported TFS alum. heads, ported Stealth 8020 intake, CompCams Xtreme Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi, BFG Drag radials..

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1547
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-09-2003 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For a little better explaination on what Alex is getting at, go here...

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/002954.html

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1289
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 01-09-2003 10:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Mike, That just about covered it, except for testing low lash settings. I spoke with a tech at CompCams and he said that these newer grinds can actually be used with hydraulic roller lifters too, if set at 0 lash, but he also said that the performance would be considerably better with a solid roller lifter and more lash.

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1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank and girdle, 5.4 H-beams, Forged slugs, ported TFS alum. heads, ported Stealth 8020 intake, CompCams Xtreme Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi, BFG Drag radials..

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 3467
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 01-09-2003 10:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
By opening up the lash and effectively taking some 'load' time out of the lobe's contact with the lifter... am I on the right page?

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1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9"

All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-09-2003 10:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Among other things. More than anything, the cam launches the lifter off the lobe and pops the valves open at a much quicker rate.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1501
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 01-10-2003 08:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
I would not recomend running over .035 on your cam Blue...

Hey Alex, What would you say I could safely extend the lash on MY solid-lifter cam?

UltraDyne says to run the cold lash @ 026"; hot @ 028"...

The rest of the spec's: @ 050, 252/260 dur; max lift 586/608; 106* lobe sep; Using Crane #11746-16 (1.6, 3/8" stud) roller rockers w/polylocs; on 306" eng w/4-spd & 4.56 gears.

Thanks! Ryan

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-10-2003 10:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At least .010 to .012.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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