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Author Topic:   Please help me I.D this starter.
mustangboy
Gearhead

Posts: 652
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 01-03-2003 09:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangboy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a 74 302(don't know what out of)with a manual trans and it has a starter on it with a 3 bolt pattern like an FE starter.It was bolted on using the 2 end bolt holes and the starter is turned on its side so that the solonoid sticks out below the manifold instead of tucked up underneath it like a normal small block.I bought a normal 2 bolt style starter for a 66 mustang 289 and the base of the starter where it goes into the bellhousing is too big.What the heck have I got here?Is this some type of small block starter?I can't see it with the extra bolt hole thats not used.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-04-2003 12:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You have a backasswardized 200 Ford six cylinder starter installed. They have 3 bolts like an FE. What trans are you trying to use now?

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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mustangboy
Gearhead

Posts: 652
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 01-04-2003 12:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangboy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Alex.This car has been a total nightmare.It was originally a 6 converted to a 302 but instead of changing it to v-8 parts he literally converted alot of 6 banger parts to work with the V-8 halfassed at least.The trans that was on it is a 1967 toploader 4 speed out of a mustang.It has an aluminium bell housing.You can see where someone has drilled extra holes in it,probably to try to get the 6 banger tranny to bolt up to it.Could I have the wrong engine plate?This seems to be what is keeping the new starter from going on as it not quite as big as the bellhousing at the starter opening.

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Hemikiller
Gearhead

Posts: 384
From: Clinton, CT
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 01-04-2003 09:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemikiller   Click Here to Email Hemikiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ford used two different noses on their small block starters, one for automatics, one for a stick trans. Go return the new starter and get the one for the manual tranny for your year car etc etc etc

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mustangboy
Gearhead

Posts: 652
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 01-04-2003 11:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangboy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes I'm well aware of the difference's between the manual and automatic starters,having broke the "ears" off of a couple trying to put an automatic starter on a manual when I was a teenager.But this is different because the starter won't fit into the hole.Even an automatic will fit into the hole,its just that the snout bottoms out in the back of the bellhousing before its tight.I wish it was as easy as ordering the correct part for the correct year but I"ve got such a mishmash of parts its hard to know whats what

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-04-2003 12:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, you may indeed have the wrong block plate. You can grind or file away some material from the plate through the starter hole to give you more clearance.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

IP: Logged

mustangboy
Gearhead

Posts: 652
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 01-04-2003 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangboy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I was able to grind a little out of the opening for the starter and got it to fit.I looked in through the back of the bellhousing(no clutch or tranny on it) and I can see the back of the starter.Its way to short.I can put my finger between the snout and the back of the bellhousing.I looked at the original flywheel that came on the 289 and compared it too the flywheel that was on the 302 and the ring gear is in a different place.The 289 ring gear is right next to the motor and the 302 ringear is on the clutch side of the flywheel which explains why the new starter is too short.In case your wondering the 289 flywheel is a 164 tooth and I don't have a bellhousing that will fit it thats why I'm not using it.Ford must have changed the placement of the ring gear sometime between 1966 and 1974.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-04-2003 10:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NO they did not. I'm wondering if the flywheel was put on backwards? It is an automatic application isn't it? Or is your refferance to manual trans what you have in the car? If you have a manual trans now what starter did you get?

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

IP: Logged

mustangboy
Gearhead

Posts: 652
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 01-05-2003 12:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangboy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes this is a manual trans car Alex.The new starter is supposed to be for a 66 289 mustang,manual trans, and I think it would work with the 164 tooth flywheel that came on the motor.The problem is the 157 tooth flywheel that I'm trying to use off of the 1974 302 has the ring gear placed at the clutch side edge of the flywheel, where the 289 flywheel has it right on the engine side of the flywheel, there must be a 1/4 of an inch difference between the two.I'm going to try ordering a 74 maverick starter with a manual trans and see if it has a longer end on it.

[This message has been edited by mustangboy (edited 01-05-2003).]

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-05-2003 12:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think that I solved the problem. Just get a regular 74 Comet V-8 starter for an automatic and try it. You'll have to trust me on this one.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

IP: Logged

mustangboy
Gearhead

Posts: 652
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 01-05-2003 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangboy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I trusted ya Alex even though I don't understand why to use an automatic and not a standard.But what the hell I got one and it seems to work I took the bellhousing up to the parts store just to make sure it reached near the back and it did.I don't understand this,most automatic starters bottom out in the back of the bellhousing on a standard trans.Can you explain the mystery,or is it top secret The nice part was the new starter was $42 dollars cheaper than the old one.One little glitch the starter gear is a little sticky to disengage out of the flywheel ,however I was doing a compression test and didn't have any sparkplugs in the motor.As long as I have a plug in it it disengages so I guess it will be ok.Also the teeth are a little chewed up from having that bassackwards 6 banger starter on it.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-05-2003 05:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We're leaving Beth's house now and are on our way back to my house.
I'll explain in detail when we get home and I don'thave to use this lap top with my club fingers.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

IP: Logged

mustangboy
Gearhead

Posts: 652
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 01-07-2003 01:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangboy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex I know you probably forgot but the curiousity is killing me.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-07-2003 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah I did. :

Sometime in the mid 70's FoMoCo changed the design of bell housings on 300 I six truck engines. They will fit any SBF also as will the flywheel. They are far more common than the V-8 flywheels and bell housings. The new design bell housing accomodated the automatic starter as did the flywheel. When you discribed the position of the flywheel ring gear I took a shot that you have 300 parts on your engine. I guess I was correct.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

IP: Logged

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