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  Full Race 347

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Author Topic:   Full Race 347
Dad Vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 1153
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-31-2002 08:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dad Vishus        Reply w/Quote
OK, so I'm really bored.

I was thinking that if I had to start completey over with a motor for my Falcon, a full race 347 might work fairly well, but as I'm not familiar with that combo maybe someone here could comment.

I like the idea of a compact, light weight power plant. I would need to make close to as much horse power as my present 377 makes to allow 10.90 index racing if desired. Present combo is 13:1 compression with roller cam (don't have the specs handy) 4V ported heads and alky injection.

I would like to reuse the toilet, of course, and assume there is a manifold that would work for that. Compression ratio would need to be at least 12:1 for the methanol. I see crate motors that come close to what I think might work, but they all seem to be about 9.5:1.

What would the best heads be for all out power? I'd like to use aluminum for weight savings.

Would the power band be close enough to the 377 for my 4:86 gear to work? The RPM at the line in quarter mile is about 7400 at 135 MPH or so now, according to the former owner. I've not run anything but eighth yet.

I really can't see myself changing from Clevelands for a while. I've got most of 3 more of them before I run out of parts, but Cleveland stuff is getting hard to find and all good things come to an end.

I could almost see trying a 347 with Cleveland heads. Those heads can make some serious power and I've got a couple more sets. For factory castings, I don't think they can be beat.

I suspect a sheetmetal intake would be in order for that combo as I doubt if there are any commercial ones.

Anyway, food for bench racin, huh?

------------------
63 Falcon 377 Cleveland stroker Flying Toilet alchohol injection. 6.19 @ 110 MPH 1/8 mile
2002 Ranger FX4 daily driver
2000 F350 PSD Crew cab dually - Like commuting in a B52!!
98 US Cargo Phantom II 28'

V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 4777
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-31-2002 08:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper        Reply w/Quote
"I could almost see trying a 347 with Cleveland heads"

Oh yea

I was going to sound in with Blue Thunder, Trick Flow 'R' or Yates heads. All flow 325~ish on the intake side... I believe Blue Thunder has 8.2" deck intakes (I'm not real familiar with the toilet; Dominator flange?)

The 'crate motors' are all flat top pistons and typically make 10:1+ c/r with 60cc chambers. Domed pistons would likely need to be made for Yates canted chambers, but there's your 12:1 and then some.

Those Dart Iron Eagle blocks sure are cool ...

------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9"

All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html

V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 4777
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-31-2002 09:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper        Reply w/Quote
I bet these guys have done it

http://www.kuntzandcompany.com/

------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9"

All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html

Dad Vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 1153
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-31-2002 09:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dad Vishus        Reply w/Quote
Square bore flange. I've got a Strip Dominator now.

One more thing I forgot. It needs to be fairly torquey. Power Slide starting it 1.76 1st gear.

I do think one shift instead of 2 is more consistent.

Cleveland heads have such huge ports for a relatively small cubic inch motor to require a fair amount of RPM to get enough flow.

This motor would have to have GOOD rotating parts, I'd think.

Kunz could no doubt do a combo like this, but I'd have to mortgage KV to pay for it!

Nah, I'd have to pay them!!

------------------
63 Falcon 377 Cleveland stroker Flying Toilet alchohol injection. 6.19 @ 110 MPH 1/8 mile
2002 Ranger FX4 daily driver
2000 F350 PSD Crew cab dually - Like commuting in a B52!!
98 US Cargo Phantom II 28'

kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 3415
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-31-2002 11:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode        Reply w/Quote
Dad V,
You might want to contact or look at Ron Feddemas site on a 347 build up. He has been playing with one for a couple of years, he used to show up on M&M once in a while.

www.rfedd.bigstep.com

I'm happy with my mild 347, but its a 99% driver and a 1% plaything at 12.5 seconds at a time.

Mike

kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 7251
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 01-01-2003 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus        Reply w/Quote
My opinion, you wont be able to get the same mph out of a 347 in your falcon that the cleveland does. You would be giving up 30 inches, and losing quite a bit of torque because of it. And with that glide, it takes torque to make it go fast. Thats why my motor didnt work with a 'glide, no torque. Cubic inches is the easiest way in the world to add torque.

Now if you were interested in putting a 3 speed in it, then maybe it would work the same, but I still doubt it. Or, instead of a 347, build a 351W based 408 with aluminum heads. That would make the torque needed for the glide and the 4.86 gear and you would still get the high mph while racing "on the stop". A Windsor with aluminum heads would weigh less than your current motor. Realistically, that would be the best option.

Dad Vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 1153
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 01-01-2003 11:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dad Vishus        Reply w/Quote
OK, just for theoretical thinking, the Falcon could be lightened up quite a bit fairly easily, glass trunk lid, lexan windows, and glass front fenders would be easy and could take a couple hundred pounds off I would think. US Body has glass doors also and the stock dash could come out.

With that and a lighter power plant, would big torque be so important with the glide?

A 2600 pound total weight with driver would make it leave fairly well even with the glide with a 347, I'd think. Of course that screws up 10.90 index racing cause it would be too light.

Getting really stupid, how bout a lighter version with a high winder 347 and a stick shift? Add the Cleveland heads I've got with the high exhaust plates and raised intake runners.......

At any rate, I'm going to run Clevelands for the forseeable future. Changing over will be costly as not much of the Cleveland stuff will transfer over. I'm happy with what I've got, but down the road, a more modern (read available) motor may be necessary.

------------------
63 Falcon 377 Cleveland stroker Flying Toilet alchohol injection. 6.19 @ 110 MPH 1/8 mile
2002 Ranger FX4 daily driver
2000 F350 PSD Crew cab dually - Like commuting in a B52!!
98 US Cargo Phantom II 28'

kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 7251
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 01-01-2003 12:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus        Reply w/Quote
I still think an aluminum headed 408W would be the best choice. Any 347 is going to need more rpm to make it work properly. And most folks will tell you, powerglides dont work well with peaky motors.

CometGT1974
Gearhead

Posts: 479
From: Asheville, NC USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-02-2003 10:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for CometGT1974        Reply w/Quote
I've been running the Victor Jr's on my 347 for a season now and have had great results.....but, if I were to build another one I would go with the Victor heads...probably the ones with the Billy Glidden designed combustion chamber and portwork done by Chapman Racing. These are some of the best small block heads on the market for all out racing....IMO

n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 3058
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-02-2003 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike        Reply w/Quote
I don't know what it is about 347's, but I've never been that impressed with them.

Ron Feddema has one of the coolest 65 mustang fastbacks out there. He has a 347 with some of the best parts money can buy, but off the bottle, it isn't that much faster than Alex's car, and his is limited to 'stock' compression, factory heads, and a 480cfm carb.

I'd stretch a 8.2" deck (289-302) out to 331ci, but if there is no restriction, the (windsor based) engine I'd build is a 351W based stroker. Those really make the power.

Did anyone see the article in Car Craft where they took a 10.5 compression 408 with Victor Jr heads and ran 9.89 no bottle in a Fox mustang? They hit it with a 200hp shot of the bottle and ran 8.69! The car was fairly lightweight, and was tubbed... but made the power. On a chassis dyno, it made over 700 REAR wheel horsepower. This is with a stock block, and the no bottle runs were made with 92 octane pump gas!

I tried really hard to convince Ron to build a 408 back when he was in the planning stages of his 347, but had no luck. He was actually openly debating it, but went with the 347.

Clevelands rock as well... as long as their cylinders are filled (to hold up to major power), and they aren't required to make gobs of low end. The 351C has got to be the prettiest pushrod V8 engine ever produced. Using facory parts, it's also the baddest of the bad when it comes to small blocks!

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

[This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 01-02-2003).]

TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 6376
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 01-03-2003 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP        Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dad Vishus:

Getting really stupid, how bout a lighter version with a high winder 347 and a stick shift?


Stupid? haha, that's about the best way to do it, killing 30 cubes and using the twin-geared slushbox from hell (or GM as the case may be) isn't going to go as fast.

As for 347's being "OK" , a local guy runs a giant turbo on his wedge headed 347 in a 3240lb Mustang and goes 7's with one of those "horrible" Powerglides, it's been pretty reliable.

Dad Vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 1153
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 01-03-2003 07:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dad Vishus        Reply w/Quote
I probably should have said hog wild instead of stupid. Stickshift cars aren't stupid, didn't mean that, just a really off the wall idea for my car.

A turbo'd 347 that runs in the 7s would about have to use a Glide or a stout manual. I doubt if you could build a C4 that would stand that much horsepower. In a 3200 lb. car running 7s I'd think that would take 1000 HP plus. Glides are used in Alky floppers that make way more HP than that, so I know one could be built up to handle 1000.

I'm not crazy about a GM trans in my Ford, but they are efficient and consistent.

I will admit that a 347 and a Glide would probably not work real well in my car as it sits, but it was sort of a "what if" kindof discussion.

------------------
63 Falcon 377 Cleveland stroker Flying Toilet alchohol injection. 6.19 @ 110 MPH 1/8 mile
2002 Ranger FX4 daily driver
2000 F350 PSD Crew cab dually - Like commuting in a B52!!
98 US Cargo Phantom II 28'

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