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Author Topic:   I'm starting to hate this engine...
n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2694
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-31-2002 02:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There hasn't been anything easy about this engine... I got away from it for a couple months, and now I'm back at it.

As for a rundown...

1. Hardblok a 302 mexican block, set up for oil restrictors, 1/2" bolts, etc... send to machine shop, only to find out it's cracked.

2. Do up my last mexican block, only to find the piston compression height is too short, so the deck needs milled 0.048" to bring the pistons up to TDC.

3. The wall thickness of the piston pins was screwed up. One side would be 0.130", the other 0.090". The pistons had been on the shelf for several years, so it was too late to send them back. I just said "f*ck it" and used them anyway. (I guess they are just 0.090" wall pins that are extra thick in certain areas) If you haven't guessed already, the pistons are Probe.

4. The rods were Boss 302 units that had been bushed for full floating pins on the small ends. I thought they looked a little thin, and I had an extra set of stockers, so I had ARP bolts installed in those, and had the pistons press fit. The bolt heads weren't oriented exactly straight. The 'football' head was twisted. It was still flush with the machined area, but I didn't like it very well. Re-rebuilding the rods would have shortened them 0.005", and I didn't want to lose any quench... so I used them.

5. The rod throws on the crank turned out to be out-of-round, so they needed turned again.

6. All this work made it necessary to do another balance job.

7. Camshaft dowel pin hole was too big. I ordered pins from McMaster that worked. They still were too long, and needed cut off... but they are functional. Upper timing gear needed a little reaming to fit the pin.

8. I broke a tap off in one of the oil pan bolt holes, and can't get it out. Hopefully it won't leak.

9. DSS main girdle and windage tray didn't fit just right, so it and the oil pump required a LOT of clearancing.

10. The "as cast" combustion chambers on these Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads overhung the 4.030" bore significantly, so I had to radius the bores at the top to match the chambers.

I think all the bolts are going to be worn out before the engine gets completed! The last engine just 'fell' together. This one has fought me every step of the way!!!

Damn... The furthest I've gotten so far is having the crank and a couple pistons installed. Hopefully all the problems with the shortblock have been addressed. THEN we'll see what sort of resistance the longblock has to offer.

I've fully cleaned the block, and it now sits downstairs awaiting the next round... It should have figured out by now that resistance is futile... and I will eventually win!

I wish the thing would just give up and let me win without a fight...

It's not even an 'optimum' sort of combination. I just want to get it together so I can drive my car! As long as it runs better than the last engine, and doesn't blow up, I'll be happy!

WHEW!!!!

Oh well, someone kick my a$$ down into the basement so I can bang my head up against this engine block some more.....


------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

[This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 12-31-2002).]

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 12-31-2002 06:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I went through a lot of the same things you went through, but one day it all came together and I took it for a drive and it was all good.

------------------
1966 Mustang Coupe: Custom glass hood and BIG scoop sits atop a 289 stroked to 331 c.i., Steel crank and girdle, 5.4 H-beams, Forged slugs, ported TFS alum. heads, ported Stealth 8020 intake, CompCams Xtreme Solid Roller, Holley 750 HP, long tubes, 4speed, 9" 3.50 posi, BFG Drag radials..

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Scott (69Mach)
Gearhead

Posts: 787
From: Walnut Creek, CA USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-31-2002 07:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott (69Mach)   Click Here to Email Scott (69Mach)     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mine finally all came together too. It lasted about 2 weeks and I grenaded the tranny. I guess it came together a little too well...

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2694
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-01-2003 09:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sometimes you test engines, sometimes they test you.

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-01-2003 11:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've had a few like that Mike.
What I have been able to do over the years is make all the mistakes and buy all of the junk parts at least once. This way I have a 50-50 chance of NOT making the same mistakes over again.
I have extreme regiments that I strictly adhere to and parts that I have intimate experiance with that I stick with. I will no longer be anyones pioneer with my hard earned money.
By the way I have some really nice connecting rods that would do you very well.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2694
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-05-2003 02:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, after taking the crank back to the machine shop due to out of round rod journals, I've finally installed it back in the block...

I went downtown and bought a NEW thing of green plastigauge, and re-checked the main bearing clearance...

Before, with the OLD plastigauge (a few years old) it checked out around 0.0025", now it comes in at 0.0015"!!!!!

This Boss 302 crank is already 0.020" under, and I'm afraid polishing the journals down to size will just get them out of round.

I'm about to test this engine... by seeing how long it takes to fall from a very high distance!

My machine shop used to do EXACTLY what I told them, but it would take months to get done. Now, with a change of management, things get done right away, but the precision is not what it used to be.

I haven't dared to check the rod clearance yet... NOTHING has been right on this engine, and I mean NOTHING!

THIS SUCKS!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-05-2003 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry Mike, I really feel for you. Good precision shops are just so difficult to find these days.
And people wonder why I go 750+ miles to have my own maching work done???

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 4652
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 01-06-2003 09:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by n2oMike:
This Boss 302 crank is already 0.020" under, and I'm afraid polishing the journals down to size will just get them out of round.

Please pardon my ignorance, but how so?

------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9"

All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-06-2003 09:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Polishing follows the existing contour and accentuates any out of round condition. Only grinding can correct an oblong or out of round journal.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2694
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-06-2003 10:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The journals should be round right now, just 0.0010"-0.0015" too big. They all have exactly 0.0015" clearance, except for the center main, which is 0.0017".

They've got good equiptment, and the guy doing the cranks can do a good job when he wants to. I might go back with the crank and see what they have to say about it.

Alex, would you feel safe polishing off 0.0010"-0.0015"? I know when a crank is ground, they grind the majority off with the grinding wheel, then polish the last little bit with that big emery paper belt sander. I just don't know if I feel comfortable polishing off another thousanth or so. I guess it would depend upon just how round the journals are now, huh?

Oh, I was able to get the cam installed. It has 0.003"-0.004" end clearance, and the crank has 0.010" end play.

My next tool purchases will be a QUALITY dial bore gauge and a NICE set of outside mics. I'm thinging of getting some of Mitutoyos better pieces.

Thanks!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

[This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 01-06-2003).]

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-06-2003 11:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Only if I was certain that the crank journal is round Mike. As you well know, the emory cloth can only follow the journal. Then I would be comfertable evening them all out by polishing.
I only like to polish standard cranks, or known "good" undersize during maintanance.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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Mario428
Journeyman

Posts: 82
From: Charlottetown, PEI, Canada
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 01-06-2003 12:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mario428   Click Here to Email Mario428     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I got into a crank measuring problem last year and the crank got ground .001 too big on the rods & mains(my fault). Allyn Armstong grinds my cranks and took pity on a Ford racer and reground it for me. He said it was less trouble than he figured it would be. My local guy tells me he has done it before just takes some setup time if you are willing to pay or it.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-06-2003 01:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike, if you have time call my friend Jeff Colvert at Accucrank.
870-246-7765

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,&'03
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2694
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-07-2003 10:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Alex.

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2694
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 05-15-2003 09:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I got the tap out by using the smallest stone I could find for a Dremel tool and cutting a couple places in the broken tap. Then a 3/16" Allen (hex) wrench had it's corners cut off so it could fit in the hole. After that, I used a tiny cutoff wheel to cut a slot in the allen wrench and shape it to fit into the flutes of the tap. It was inserted, and out it came! After all this I learned obout special 'tap extractors' seen here... A buddy has one he purchased to remove a tap from the main bolt area of a SBC. He says they will take a surprising amount of torque, work great, and are a life saver! You just push the 'fingers' down into the flutes, push the collar down, and twist it out.

They can be purchased here....

http://www.waltontools.com/products/extractr.htm

After saving my pennies, I purchased a couple Starrett digital micrometers to be able to check out any crank work and measure bearing thickness for clearances. I had instructed the shop to cut the crank to the low side of the tolerance for extra clearance. After checking it, it was in the middle to high range. I took it back, and they GROUND an extra thousanth off the mains, and polished half a thousanth off the rods. It was done right, and the crank is incredibly consistent and on target now... no matter how I measure it. I guess they just 'missed' the 'grind to low' part of the job description.

I also decided against Childs and Albert gapless (2nd) rings... I already had a set, and set them up for this engine, but the middle land has no pressure groove, and I was worried the pressure of the nitrous would cause problems.... so I purchased a set of Speed Pro file fit conventional rings with standard tension oil rings (no pan evacuation since it's a street car), and will gap both the top and second rings the same amount.

It should start going together in the near future. Wish me luck.


------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

[This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 05-15-2003).]

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Buster
Gearhead

Posts: 1553
From: Hurricane alley
Registered: May 2002

posted 05-15-2003 09:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster   Click Here to Email Buster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by n2oMike:
Sometimes you test engines, sometimes they test you.


hehe, I like that quote Mike

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Buster
Gearhead

Posts: 1553
From: Hurricane alley
Registered: May 2002

posted 05-15-2003 10:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster   Click Here to Email Buster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by n2oMike:


My next tool purchases will be a QUALITY dial bore gauge and a NICE set of outside mics. I'm thinking of getting some of Mitutoyos better pieces.

Thanks!


Been down that road Mike.... I learned, when I was 16, that you couldn't trust plastigauge. I always measure everything by hand. A good dial bore gauge is worth it's weight in gold and not too pricey either.

I really wish I could find a dial bore gauge for guides.... those dang things are way too expensive. Last time I check they were around $700.00 or so for a good set.

I use screw in bronze valve guides and I really wish I could size the guides right on the money and that is the best way IMO.

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2694
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-03-2005 04:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I'm finally back at it. I've got to get this thing together...

I got the shortblock together after having the machine shop take a little off the main and rod journals. They are still on the tight side.... which I hate. Anyway...

Next Chapter, CYLINDER HEADS.

I finally finished the port work and sent them to the machine shop to have the finished valve job touched up. (These are some old twisted wedge heads I've had forever)

Long story short, I put them together and they leaked! I poured gasoline into the ports, and it leaked past the valves.... SUCK-A-RIFFIC!

So.... I take them back and want them fixed. They have a machine that cuts all three angles at once, and used it on my heads. I pick them up, and where I had a nice radius from the valve seat into the chamber, is a wide flat place! I was pissed, but went ahead and radiused it out with a dremel and a small cutoff wheel.

I went ahead and hand lapped the valves before doing the final cleaning and assembly to be safe. I finally installed the heads and decided to install some spark plugs to see how the well the engine held compression.

This is where I get REALLY pissed.

It doesn't hold compression for crap! On one cylinder, I could literally FEEL air pushing out the exhaust port under the compression stroke! To test, I squirted WD40 into each port during the compression stroke and turned the engine over. What do I see???? BUBBLES!!!! FROTHY BUBBLES!!! ALL 16 VALVES LEAKED!!! And most leaked BAD!

I'm going to loosen the head bolt torque a bit to see if the head (and valve job) is getting deformed... or what. Anyway, they will be coming off. If loosening the torque helps them seal, I guess I'll have to purchase a torque plate for doing valve jobs, or find a shop that has one for SBF's. (I have a standard BHJ torque plate that I might be able to use somehow)

I HATE this engine.... and fully expect it to scatter into 1000 pieces shortly after it finally comes to life.... I WILL run this POS just as hard as it will possibly run every time it's fired up. (just like I did with that wonderful 289 headed engine that preceded it) That sucker was a Timex!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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85mikejesse
Journeyman

Posts: 3
From: Bremerton,Wa.
Registered: Jan 2005

posted 01-03-2005 04:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 85mikejesse   Click Here to Email 85mikejesse     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hang in there Mike.
I'm having some issues with both the 428 stroker and the 401 stroker.
Seems like every part needs to go onto the the lathe, mill, or the grinder.
Right now both cams are going back to the manufacturer. They both bind with the dist. gear while turning over with just the cam gear installed. If I install another cam from a different manufacturer, it spins freely. Can't win.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-03-2005 05:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike, a couple of questions.
What brand valves are you using?
What valve seat pressure?
Are you using spring cups?
When you are checking compression, is that with or without the lash set?
Many times they need to take a set and several turns of the engine with the lash set is the only way you can get this done.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2694
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-03-2005 08:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Mike, a couple of questions.
What brand valves are you using?

Ferrea. They are what came with the heads. Probably mid-grade.

quote:
What valve seat pressure?

They are 130# on the seat, but have the inner springs removed.

quote:
Are you using spring cups?

Yes, the shims are under the cups.

quote:
When you are checking compression, is that with or without the lash set?

It is with the lash set. I loosened it up in case they were too tight just to make sure.

quote:
Many times they need to take a set and several turns of the engine with the lash set is the only way you can get this done.

I've turned it over quite a few times. I even tapped the valve tips with a brass hammer to try and get them to seat.

I NEED to get this thing together soon... as a friend is getting his fairlane on the road this spring, and is wanting his 427 stroker engine (428 crank) finished ASAP. It will be a beast. Now THOSE engines take a lot of research.

What are your views on using a torque plate when doing a valve job?

Thanks!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

[This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 01-03-2005).]

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fastbigblockford
Journeyman

Posts: 88
From: Elizabeth, WV USA
Registered: Dec 2004

posted 01-03-2005 08:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fastbigblockford   Click Here to Email fastbigblockford     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hang in there mike,
you will get that thing together and it will run like a champ! lemme know if you need any help, id be glad to stop by.
on another note, i take it now would be a bad time to ask what machine shop i should use for my engine work?? lol
hope things start goin better
Dan

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BLstangin
Gearhead

Posts: 817
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 01-03-2005 08:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BLstangin   Click Here to Email BLstangin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, I too had these types of problems when I put my 306 together, I'm sure some of you remember old posts, pistons that didn't fit cylinders, bearing clearance problems, compression ratio problems, found the line bore to be off the second go round, but it's together now, and it runs great, so it's worth it in the end. I also found out that plastigauge can be off by as much as .0015 so I think that I'll use my mics and telescoping gauges from now on!

------------------
1970 coupe restored with the help of my dad. 306 with 650 dp holley, Weiand Stealth intake, headers, mme custom roller cam, harland sharp roller rockers, kb pistons, 10.3:1 compression ratio, pertonix ignitor 2 with matched coil, lakewood bellhousing, 4-speed toploader, and 3.50 9" locker rear.
1986 f-150, 5.0, factory towing package with original c-6 trans

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-03-2005 09:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am not a fan of those valves, but that's what you got.

I have never had to use a torque plate for valve jobs on anything other than FE aluminum heads with titanium valves.
My hypothosis is that the seat cutters do not match the valve grinding stones.

This is my solution.
Hillbilly valve job.
Remove the heads, and the springs.
Coat the valves with VG compound and use a low speed drill with suction cup to re-seat the valves.
Clean up, and re-test with solvent. No springs one port at a time.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA & SS/MA National Record Holder '00,'01,'02,'03,& '04
First SS/MA in the TENS!
IHRA division 5 Superstock Champion
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28

The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

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chip67
Gearhead

Posts: 245
From: louisville, ky, jefferson
Registered: Oct 2004

posted 01-03-2005 10:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chip67   Click Here to Email chip67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
have you ever heard of "REV" valves? are they any count? i was thinking of getting some sodium filled next year but those are the ones that came with the heads.

------------------
coupe, 306, 4 speed, 4.11's. pump gas, n/a street car. best so far is 7.48 (1/8 mile) at 93mph with 1.64 60ft. 11.80 at 113 on greased 1/4 track.

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RumpityRump
Journeyman

Posts: 32
From: Hawthorne, Ca, USA
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 01-03-2005 11:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RumpityRump   Click Here to Email RumpityRump     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With all these new mikes and gages don't forget something VERY IMPORTANT...a gage block set...the BEST way to set your mikes and bore gages.Good Luck.

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BLstangin
Gearhead

Posts: 817
From: St. James, MN
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 01-03-2005 11:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BLstangin   Click Here to Email BLstangin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yep, a block set is nice. Use them at school. Also I run rev valves in my motor seem to be a great valve. They've seen in the 6,000 rpm range and seem to hold up fine, Best part only paid $100 for them brand new on e-bay. Stainless steel and swirl polished.

------------------
1970 coupe restored with the help of my dad. 306 with 650 dp holley, Weiand Stealth intake, headers, mme custom roller cam, harland sharp roller rockers, kb pistons, 10.3:1 compression ratio, pertonix ignitor 2 with matched coil, lakewood bellhousing, 4-speed toploader, and 3.50 9" locker rear.
1986 f-150, 5.0, factory towing package with original c-6 trans

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2694
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-04-2005 06:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
My hypothosis is that the seat cutters do not match the valve grinding stones.

This is my solution.
Hillbilly valve job.
Remove the heads, and the springs.
Coat the valves with VG compound and use a low speed drill with suction cup to re-seat the valves.
Clean up, and re-test with solvent. No springs one port at a time.


I've tried the "hillbilly" route on 'junk' before.... except I just chocked the valve right in the drill chuck.

Only problem, it leaves grooves in the seat and cups out the seat area.

I'll take them off and investigate further to try and get more of an idea of just what the problem is... and go from there.

Thanks

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2694
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-09-2005 11:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I loosened the bolt torque and it didn't help.

All the exhaust valves seem to be leaking at the area between the valves. Intakes are also leaking.

I pulled off a head and filled the ports with thinner, and it leaked past the valves. Some leaked like crazy. Speaking of crazy, I'm starting to get there real quick!

I was stupid and in a hurry and just took the heads 'as delivered' last time, lapped the valves, and did not bother to pour gas in the ports to check the valve job before installation.

I guess there's never time to do it right... but there's always time to do it again! (dad use to say that a lot)


------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

[This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 01-09-2005).]

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