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Author
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Topic: A Ford S/G car?
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 12-27-2002 11:03 PM
   
What would it take to build a Ford SuperGas class, competitive car?
9.90 index, capable of 8's in the 1/4mile amd constistent. I hate to think that I might have to go to another brand for this project, any ideas? We have a high 10 sec '66 Mustang and a '70 rb (440) dart to work with. The Dart could be cut up and sacraficed much easier than the stang. Any ideas?SteveW
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 12-27-2002 11:05 PM
double[This message has been edited by steve'66 (edited 12-27-2002).]
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-27-2002 11:41 PM
Light car with a big motor is the norm Steve.
Lot's of very competitive FoMoCo sewergassers. Several out your way.
Actually tthe late Don Cumby was pretty successful with a big old 70 Torino Cobra and a 514 before he built his duece.
Lot's of Pinto's, Probes, early Falcons, Fairmonts, dueces, Fox cars, and of course a quite a few 65-68 Mustangs.
If it was me I would probably do up a 427W and buy somebody's running decent bracket ladder bar Fairmont/Zephyr. They are plentiful and dirt cheap.------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 12-28-2002 12:08 AM
OK,If the '66 stang was to beome the S/G car what would it take? Also if the '70 Dart were to become the S/G car what would it take. (for the open minded) 
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 12-28-2002 09:12 AM
It seems mostof the cars that are really compatetive nowadays are full tube chassis cars with 4 links. The minimum weight is 2600# I believe (might be 2400, not realsure). The guys that win alot, are capable of cutting .420 or better lights every pass on a 4 tenths pro tree. It's hard to get a backhalf car to do that. Not impossible, just hard. I know mine wont as it sits. A strut style front end (or MII) also helps since it allows for a lot less suspension travel to get the tires out of the beams quicker if the car is prone to standing up at all. One racer who has passed away used to believe that is was best to pop the tires straight up out of the beams to get better lights. He was pretty good at the class (and also was the founder of Digital Delay delay boxes now sold by Biondo) and won a few races.Like you stated, the car needs to be capable of running either high 8's, or right at 9 flat. Regardless, someone will always out mph it. A couple of locals (used to be locals when I was in Iowa) that successfully run it use 'glass cobra bodied full tube cars. To get your mustang to run the class, alot of fiberglass to get the weight down so it is just above the minimum with driver, full backhalf with a 4 link, and front half with a MII style suspension, and a bigger motor. But, since I havent run the class, this info could all be way off the mark. So take it for what it's worth = not much.
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Dave_C
Gearhead Posts: 744
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 12-28-2002 11:16 AM
My .02You can buy an already built SG type car for way less than you can build one. Not as much fun (or aggravation), but it can be done for less $$. You need something like this:
http://www.dragraceresults.com/class/door.html
Look at the 86 T-bird about 2/3 the way down. It's a long way from you,but you can prob find other cars about the same closer to you. The T-bird belongs to a guy about an 45 miles from me. Has run 5.77 1/8 mile with a mild 514 BBF on alky in bracket trim.
No way you could build a similar car for the $7500 he's asking. Later,
David Cole
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-28-2002 11:47 AM
The Dart has a lot of good parts already.
Since I know a little about Mopars I might be able to help some Steve. Is the Dart running yet? If so, we need to talk and see about getting it to the track as is. That will tell us a lot about the engine's potential. As much as I love my FoMoCo's, I am also a pragmatist. A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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Dad Vishus
Gearhead Posts: 540
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 12-28-2002 02:12 PM
When I was shopping for a car last Summer, there was a 69 fastback in the Kansas City area that was a good example. It was a steel roof clip on a full tube moly 4 link chassis with a 377 Cleveland. The motor was pretty hard core with 4V heads with high port plates cut into the exhaust side and a tunnel ram with 2 Dominators. Can you say overcarburated?  Trans was a Glide and the car had all the usual bells and whistles for an index car. The car was on ebay and didn't sell. It was listed later on Dale Wilches site for a while then disappeared. I got the impression from the bids that he was asking somewhere in excess of 13K for the car. That's probably a good deal for a low 9 second car. The pictures of it showed a mid 9 dial in at the track, so I'm assuming it would run low nines in good air. Theres no way you could build a car like that for 13 or 14K. With the rotating parts you'd need a motor alone could easily cost that. My Falcon could be made to run those numbers by putting it on a diet. It weighs 2700 plus w/o driver now and will run high nines in good air, but was built to run S/S H/R and has ladder bars, which from most opinions I've heard won't reliably leave on a 4 tenths tree. If I was seriously considering a car to run 9.90, I'd look for one to buy. There are some out there most of the time, and if you are careful what you buy, its alot easier and cheaper to do it that way. Just my .00002  ------------------
63 Falcon 377 Cleveland stroker Flying Toilet alchohol injection. 6.19 @ 110 MPH 1/8 mile
2002 Ranger FX4 daily driver
2000 F350 PSD Crew cab dually - Like commuting in a B52!!
98 US Cargo Phantom II 28'
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 12-28-2002 02:16 PM
Thanks guys!Yeah I'd hate to cut up the '66. The Dart is stripped now and will become a race only car in time. How available are aluminum front clips for them? Alex, The current 440 isn't capable, but if I stroke it and build it right it could make the required 800-1000 h.p. Although the only thing more expensive to build than a Ford is a Mopar. I'm gonna go ahead and put a full cage in it. Is there a website just for the "super" class cars? SteveW
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 12-28-2002 02:53 PM
I'm sure you realize that not only will it need a full cage, but it will have to certify.
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 12-28-2002 06:04 PM
KV,Yes I know but it'll be a while b4 I get to that point. But as long as I'm building it anyway I might as well build it for the final goal so I don't have to do everything twice. SteveW
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 12-28-2002 06:51 PM
Back in the 70's I built a 452 inch TRW motored 68 Dart GTS with a single 4 dominator that went 10.80's. It weighed about 3k with an automatic and basic Mopar S/S suspension. Had we the tires and a little other technology of today, that same car would go 10.00's. Like I said, I know a thing or two about Mopars. Today 3500 lb+ six pack B body "stockers" are running in the mid tens all over the country. Several in your back yard Steve. Ever hear of the Rettig Bros.? ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com
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TomP
Gearhead Posts: 4812
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99
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posted 12-29-2002 03:22 AM
Even though that type of racing isn't my bag, it seems that 600 cubic inch engines and 2100-2300lb cars are the way to go there.
You could do it with the Mustang as is by stepping it up to run barely in the nines. Theres no need for the car to run faster than 9.9000 in whatever atmospheric conditions you're dealt.Maybe it's the challenge? You sure live in a tough area competitor-wise. The Seipels amongst many others are going to make it tough to win.
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Buff Daddy
Gearhead Posts: 338
From: Enon Valley PA USA
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 12-29-2002 05:35 PM
Steve, e-mail my friends, the Drummonds. They own a racecar shop in Delaware. Steve runs a '68 Mustang S/Gas car. #7 in the World in 2000, and #2 in the division that year. E-mail is [email protected]Hope this helps. Mike
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Mike Carr
Stock Eliminator, NHRA 1302 / IHRA 1302
Street ET 1302, Quaker City Raceway, Salem OH
22 years old
E-mail: [email protected]
AOL IM: MikeCarr STK1302
"Hookers are headers, NOT street walkers"--Jim Fontana, S/S racer.
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steve'66
Gearhead Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000
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posted 12-29-2002 06:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by TomP:
Maybe it's the challenge? You sure live in a tough area competitor-wise. The Seipels amongst many others are going to make it tough to win.
Yeah, that's it! LOL The competion is fierce even in Sportsman around here. Ted and Kyle are only two of many excellant racers.  SteveW
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