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Author Topic:   SBF block questions
Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 813
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-17-2002 08:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a 1987 Mustang GT that serves as my daily driver. It has
over 150,000 miles and still has good oil pressure and compression
but I have a Novi 1000 supercharger waiting in the wings, so I
planned to pull the motor over Christmas and freshen or rebuid the
motor as necessary. I'm trying to keep this emissions legal and as
inexpensive as practical and am planning on retaining the stock HO
cam and speed-density injection, following a recipe Alex supplied me
for the blower install:

- stock 5.0L (stock heads, cam, and intake)
- stock speed density
- stock 19 lb injectors
- 190 LPH in-tank pump (maybe go for 255 LPH)
- 1.7:1 bolt-down pedestal roller rockers with BBC single springs
- FMU
- adjustable pressure regulator
- TPS with slotted holes
- Novi supercharger pullied to provide 8-10 psi (using an F-150 crank
pulley)
- 3428SG Victor Rientz head gaskets
- Melling M-68 oil pump and shaft

This is a daily-driver and I want it to last another 100K miles under
8-10 lbs of boost. I have a set of large chamber, small port, D8 351W
heads that I'll probably use instead of the stock E7 heads. They need
a bowl port but have 1.94"/1.6" valves, new guides, studs, and guide
plates. The larger chambers will drop the compression a bit which is
a good thing with the blower. I might add an aftermarket intake and
larger throttle body, too.

However, I've had some things come up, so this will all have to wait.
On the plus side, I've got more time to order parts, procrastinate, and
change plans. Dad's tossed out another option. He's got an 1990 Lincoln
Town Car that developed some engine trouble shortly after he had the AOD
rebuilt. I'm not sure what the problem is but it runs like somebody
plugged the tailpipe with a potato. The exhaust was unbolted and it still
ran that way and, supposedly, the EEC-IV isn't showing any codes and the
fuel pump is putting out what it should. In any event, dad has replaced
that car and wants me to pull the engine and tranny before he disposes of
it. (note to self: pull distributor and check for bent gear pin, also put
in the other O2 sensor)

The Lincoln has a 5.0L but its not the same as my '87 Mustang's HO 5.0L.
It was rated at 150 HP versus the HO's 225 HP, has cast pistons versus
the HO's forged but it does have a hydraulic roller cam, though I'm sure
it's not an HO cam. I know the intake ports are smaller but I don't know
what the head castings are. It is also an automatic, instead of a stick
and probably has over 150K miles. Anyway, dad has offered it to me.
Rather than pulling my old engine and going through it, I could rebuild
the Lincoln short block, add a set of heads, an aftermarket intake manifold,
and install the supercharger. Would make for little down-time for the
Mustang but the Lincoln option will require additional parts (forged pistons,
a flywheel, pressure plate, HO roller cam), along with a balance job.

Anyone know if there are any differences between HO and Lincoln blocks,
cranks, and rods? Is the Lincoln crank drilled for a pilot bushing and
balanced to 50 oz-in?

I have some extra parts that came with another project, including a new
SFI-spec balancer and Ford Motorsport flywheel but they are both balanced
for 28.2 oz-in. The balancer is a Summit brand, likely made by someone
else, and lists for $270 in the current catalog. It appears to be set up
for either 3 bolt or 4 bolt cranks and pulleys. Dad's also got an old 302
that I could rob for parts, if need be. I need to find out if it is
balanced for 28.2 or 50 oz-in but my guess would be 28.2 oz-in. I could
take the crank (and maybe rods?) from the 302 and put it in the Lincoln
roller block and use the Motorsport flywheel and Summit balancer. Besides
the balance, is there any difference between the old 302 cranks and the
5.0L? I believe there was a switch to a one-piece rear main seal in 1982
or there-abouts.

I also have a friend who'll sell me a Mexican 302 long block for $250 but
that block won't accomodate the stock hydraulic roller cam.

I still need to decide on the extras like a road race oil pan and windage
tray, etc. I've got the suspension working fairly well now and don't want
to starve the bearings in a long corner. Any recommendations appreciated.

Thanks,
Dan Jones

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-18-2002 12:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Blocks, rods and crank are all the same Dan. Heads are E6SZ's and are junk. SO is the upper intake and TB. (50mm)

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

[This message has been edited by Moneymaker (edited 12-18-2002).]

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 813
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-18-2002 03:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
> Blocks, rods and crank are all the same Dan.

Thanks, just what I needed to know.

> Heads are E6SZ's and are junk.

I could rebuild the E7's but I also have a set of D8's that came
with my old truck project. The D8's are 351W heads but have the
small 302 ports and large chambers. They've already been set up
with 1.94"/1.6" valves and studs/guideplates. They have new
guides as well. Are the D8's ports any worse than the E7 HO heads?
I was think about just doing a bowl port, grinding the bumps out
of the exhaust and port matching. I do have some old DOOE's but
they need the works (guides, valves, etc.).

> SO is the upper intake and TB. (50mm)

We had the intake off the Lincoln before and those ports really
are small. It's a shame they didn't offer the HO as an option.
That Lincoln was really gutless.

Any thoughts about swapping is an earlier 28.2 oz-in crank into
the later hydraulic roller block? Are the cranks any different
in the seal area or just the blocks? In other words, can I slip
an early crank into a late block by just using the 1 piece rear
main seal?

Thanks Much,
Dan Jones

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mustangboy
Gearhead

Posts: 774
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 12-19-2002 12:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangboy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The D8s make good door stops in stock form but if you've already got the bigger valves in them they might be ok.The only other thing is the huge combustion chamber,68 CCs I think.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-19-2002 12:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would do some port matching and a little bowl work to the E7 heads David. That really wakes them up.
I use the 5.0 crank with a 28 oz balance in all of my 302 race engines. They are plenty strong to 7000 RPM +.

I'll finish up the Titanium experiances tomorrow David, I'm beat from this shopping all day crap!

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

IP: Logged

Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 813
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-19-2002 05:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
> I would do some port matching and a little bowl work to the E7 heads
> David. That really wakes them up.

Unfortunately, the E7's are on the car. The whole purpose of using the
Lincoln donor 5.0L was to not have to take the Mustang (my daily driver)
off the road until the new engine was rady to drp in. Since the E6SZ's
are on the Lincoln, that leaves me with what's in the parts bin. I have
the rebuilt D8's with 1.94"/1.6" valves that need a bowl port or I have
a pair of DOOE's that need everything. I suppose I could work the DOOE's
over but I was hoping the D8's would work as well as the E7's.

> I use the 5.0 crank with a 28 oz balance in all of my 302 race engines.
> They are plenty strong to 7000 RPM +.

With a 28.2 oz-in balancer and flywheel, does it take much in the way of
Mallory metal to balance a 5.0L crank? Do you have a recommendation on
a flat top piston, preferably with clearance for large valves? I like
the stock HO forged flat tops. They've been nice and quiet, unlike some
of the large clearance older forged pistons I've run before.

> I'll finish up the Titanium experiances tomorrow David, I'm beat from
> this shopping all day crap!

After tomorrow, I'm heading out of town for more than two weeks and will
be away from my computer, so I probably won't be able to reply. Don't
think I don't appreciate it, though. I do look forward to hearing your
experience.

BTW, I'm Dan, not David, Jones. David Jones is David Bowie's real name.
He changed his name because he didn't want to be confused with Davey Jones
of the Monkees :-)

Thanks Much,
Dan Jones

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-19-2002 06:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry Dan, I was tired.

Not much mallory at all.
The D8 heads really blow. I would rather see you use the DOOE heads unless the D8's had some serious bowl work.
The Badger HO replacment piston works very well as does the Sealed Power unit.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

IP: Logged

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-19-2002 06:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
PS, have fun on your trip "Dan".

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
www.moneymakerracing.com

IP: Logged

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