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Author Topic:   if you were going to start from the ground up....
Dubz
Gearhead

Posts: 1888
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 12-08-2002 12:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dubz   Click Here to Email Dubz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
which motor would you choose a 351W or a 351C??

explain your reasons

------------------
1974 Gran Torino, 351W
1970 Mustang Grande, 289

Just a young buck

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 1333
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 12-08-2002 09:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I currently have a 372C in my '69.
However if I had to start from scratch I would build a stroker windsor.
Cleveland blocks are getting harder to find, and the 4V closed chamber heads are getting more and more expensive.
By the time you buy 4V heads, put new valvetrain parts in, and have the heads cut for studs and guide plates, you have spent enough money to get aftermarket W heads.
The windsor Roush 200 heads are a bargain if you are willing to take a die grinder and clean the ports up. Otherwise the AFRs are the way to go.
You can build a 393W pretty cheaply now.
Also the Windsors have a better selection of street oriented intakes available.
Now if someone GIVES you a 4V cleveland, then by all means build a cleveland.
Otherwise I would do a Windsor If I had to do it over.

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6395
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-08-2002 09:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ditto everything Jim said.

I was originaly going to build a Windsor when I got started racing. But that was around '89, and there were no good heads available for them yet. So, I started buying cleveland stuff. Now I have so much C stuff, it would be really stupid and expensive for me to start over. I would take a major financial loss if I sold all my C stuff.

But if I were starting over now, I would run a big windsor stroker with a set of killer aluminum heads.

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Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 1046
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-08-2002 11:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No on both the W and the C.
If starting from scratch....
stroker 460. Cubic Inches baby...

Somewhere between 514-557 ci. Aluminum heads, etc. With the aluminum heads, intake and water pump you can get it within 50-60 lbs weight of an iron headed 351C. Add in a built C-4 for street duty and you'll terrorize unsuspecting Ch*vy's with it.

BTW, Dubz, a 460 will fit either or your cars.

Later,
David Cole

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jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 2898
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 12-08-2002 04:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dave_C:
No on both the W and the C.
If starting from scratch....
stroker 460. Cubic Inches baby...

Somewhere between 514-557 ci. Aluminum heads, etc. With the aluminum heads, intake and water pump you can get it within 50-60 lbs weight of an iron headed 351C. Add in a built C-4 for street duty and you'll terrorize unsuspecting Ch*vy's with it.
BTW, Dubz, a 460 will fit either or your cars.


It's not really that much more expensive to build a BBF over a Windsor either. Yeah what Dave said

------------------
Jerry Smith
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag
70 Mustang retired former footbrake car
"Long ago when men cursed and beat the ground with sticks, it was
called witchcraft.....Today, it's called golf."
"This is FORD Country, on a quiet night you can hear a chevy RUST!"

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Dubz
Gearhead

Posts: 1888
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 12-08-2002 04:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dubz   Click Here to Email Dubz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dave_C:
No on both the W and the C.
If starting from scratch....
stroker 460. Cubic Inches baby...

Somewhere between 514-557 ci. Aluminum heads, etc. With the aluminum heads, intake and water pump you can get it within 50-60 lbs weight of an iron headed 351C. Add in a built C-4 for street duty and you'll terrorize unsuspecting Ch*vy's with it.

BTW, Dubz, a 460 will fit either or your cars.

Later,
David Cole



It was just a question, i'm not looking at getting another engine. Just thought it might be an interesting topic of discussion

and the BBF....that's for another car later down the line....maybe forced induction as well

------------------
1974 Gran Torino, 351W
1970 Mustang Grande, 289

Just a young buck

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64FalconF-16
Gearhead

Posts: 230
From: Republic Of Texas!! Temporarily living in KY
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 12-09-2002 08:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 64FalconF-16   Click Here to Email 64FalconF-16     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If I had to do it over.

Clevor!!!.

Stroked Windsor. Cleveland 4V Closed Chamber heads. The Heads are what you want from a Cleveland anyway. Big Block power from a Small block motor. Even the open 4V's Chamber heads are better than "most" of the Alum W heads.

I have nothing against Big Blocks. However, I have seen quite a few of them with snapped cams.

My .02

Rick

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BlueMule
Gearhead

Posts: 1547
From: Kent Island, MD USA M&M # 2423
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 12-09-2002 08:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueMule   Click Here to Email BlueMule     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dave_C:
No on both the W and the C.
If starting from scratch....
stroker 460. Cubic Inches baby...

Somewhere between 514-557 ci. Aluminum heads, etc. With the aluminum heads, intake and water pump you can get it within 50-60 lbs weight of an iron headed 351C. Add in a built C-4 for street duty and you'll terrorize unsuspecting Ch*vy's with it.

BTW, Dubz, a 460 will fit either or your cars.

Later,
David Cole


x 10 toss in a 6/71 huffer... 'got tude but you gotta give up on the unsuspecting chebbies. fair trade in my book.

------------------
-Paul

70 Mach1
79 Ranchero GT
97 Expedition XLT
00 SVT f150 Lightning 4149 of 4966 Born on: 06/26/2000

'life's tough... it's tougher if you're stupid.'

[This message has been edited by BlueMule (edited 12-09-2002).]

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 44921
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 12-09-2002 08:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd go 460, too. Torque is king.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

Be sure to remember our sponsors, Mustangs Plus, NPD, and Osborn Reproductions.

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Dubz
Gearhead

Posts: 1888
From: Manitoba Canada
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 12-09-2002 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dubz   Click Here to Email Dubz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i guess nobody read my post. I am not buying another engine, it was a "which would you choose of the two", thought it would be an interesting discussion....that is all. No new engine!!!

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68DARKHORSE
Gearhead

Posts: 445
From: Austin, Tx
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 12-09-2002 05:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68DARKHORSE   Click Here to Email 68DARKHORSE     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 64FalconF-16:
Even the open 4V's Chamber heads are better than "most" of the Alum W heads.
Rick

The Cleveland intake ports are good but the exhaust ports don't flow that well. The open 4v's may flow better than "some" aluminum Windsors but they need custom pistons to make swirl and compression. The large open chambers also promote detonation.

Cleveland heads weigh 130lb a pair.
Aluminum windsor heads weigh 44lb a pair.

Windsors also leave more room under the hood.
Cleveland parts are more expensive and have fewer options.

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6395
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-09-2002 05:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 68DARKHORSE:
The Cleveland intake ports are good but the exhaust ports don't flow that well.

But they arent chopped liver either. Mine flow 225 cfm @ .600 lift. That's more than my buddies ported Canfields flow on the exhuast.

Granted, if I were starting over, I would run a windsor with aluminum heads partially due to the major weight difference. Even if the intake ports dont flow quite as well, the smaller port with the higher velocity would help overcome the loss of cfm.

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64FalconF-16
Gearhead

Posts: 230
From: Republic Of Texas!! Temporarily living in KY
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 12-10-2002 08:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 64FalconF-16   Click Here to Email 64FalconF-16     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 68DARKHORSE:
Windsors also leave more room under the hood.
Cleveland parts are more expensive and have fewer options.

I agree Cleveland parts are more expensive.....For the bottom end. That's why If I had to do it over I would go with a Clevor. Get the Cheaper, plentiful W parts on the bottom end and have the good 4V heads and a custom sheet metal intake to top it.

How much horsepower does it take to move 80 lbs? A good 4V head will have the potential to make more power than an Alum W head in race applications. in my experience. Canted valved heads have proved thier point many, many times.

There is an alternative.. Yates blue Thunder Alum Cleveland heads on a W Block!!!Whoooo!!!!

Rick

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