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Author Topic:   Block fill question.
[email protected]
Gearhead

Posts: 850
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 12-03-2002 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JCQuinn@work   Click Here to Email JCQuinn@work     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When you fill a block, do you completely fill to the deck or do you leave a small space for water?

Back when I last raced, block filling was one of those secrets that only the smart guys knew about. So of course I didn't know about it.

John

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Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 994
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-03-2002 02:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Most guys fill it tothe bottom ofthe water pump holes. That way you still have water circulating around the hottest part of the cylinder.

Later,
David Cole

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26513
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-03-2002 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
10-4

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2499
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-03-2002 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hardblok will help support the cylinders and keep them round under severe stess. It will drastically improve ring seal under severe conditions, and it's extra mass will help dampen major vibrations.

I would fill it to the bottom of the water pump holes to allow for adequate cooling.

I filled mine with HardBlok, as this was the brand that was overwhelmingly recommended over any other... But, I haven't got to run it yet.

Fill the block BEFORE machine work is done. The Moroso brand is supposed to expand as it cures, and will make the cylinders tight. I have heard of people using the HardBlok product AFTER machine work was done without incident, but wouldn't recommend that if it can be avoided.

You do ONE bank at a time. It's a good idea to torque the mains and use a level to get the engine completely level front to back and side to side.

You then mix it up and pour it in. A mixer attached to a drill will make the mixing more effective and faster, and give you more 'pour' time before it starts to set up. An old alternator fan (or even a straight bar) welded to a rod works great for this.

Be aware that each bank will take DIFFERENT amounts of mix to fill.

When finished filling, I used an air hammer set on LOW to help with settling. I welded a fairly thick 1" square piece of steel to the end of one of the chisels to act as my 'blunt' tip. This makes the job go WAY easier. Settling takes place quickly and efficiently.

After it was all settled, I installed a head (and gasket) and let it cure for 24hrs before doing the other side. The head will simulate the loads on the bore when the engine is assembled. (same principle as 'torque plate' boring/honing)

The directions in the HardBlok containor are good, and fairly easy to follow.

If you have a GOOD scale (for reading low weights of less than 10lbs) the 'tall fill' containor is twice as big and will fill two blocks. (comes with two large bags) It's just important to weigh the filler out accurately to the 1/4 pound. The 'half fill' Hardblok is already pre-measured for half filling. (two small bags)

I also cleaned out the water jackets before beginning by filling them with muriatic acid. I let the un-diluted acid sit in there for a couple minutes in each bank before dumping it out and rinsing GOOD with water. It will eat ALL the rust out of the jackets and give a great surface for the Hardblok to bond to. Just be careful. When the acid hits a concrete driveway, it produces a nasty 'acid fog'. As a by product, the driveway will have one VERY clean spot. Wear gloves and eye protection, and try to avoid getting the acid on your clothes. Muriatic acid is found in hardware stores, and is normally used to lower the pH in swimming pools and clean bricks and masonry. (it's usually diluted for this)

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26513
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-03-2002 06:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Electrolyte (battery acid) is also a fair subsitute for the muriatic acid.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6220
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-03-2002 08:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have used Hardblok after the block was bored. It worked pretty good, but I wouldnt recommend it. I have also used Moroso block fill with the same success (but never tried it after the block was bored.) The last one I filled, I leveled front to back, but tipped towards the outside edge so more of the fill would go to the thrust side since that seems to be where most of my cracked cylinders happen. I also filled it halfway up the water pump outlets then ground it out to match the gasket. I wanted more fill up higher in theblock.

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64FalconF-16
Gearhead

Posts: 216
From: Republic Of Texas!! Temporarily living in KY
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 12-04-2002 07:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 64FalconF-16   Click Here to Email 64FalconF-16     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike you said do one bank at a time. Does that mean you pour one side, torque the head down and let it cure for 24 then start on the other side?

If that is true.
Does that not twist the block a little by having one head torqued and not the other?

Wondering mind...

Rick

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2499
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-04-2002 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Each bank is seperated, so it is possible to do each side of the block seperately. If it makes you feel better to have both heads torqued as it cures... by all means, do so.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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64FalconF-16
Gearhead

Posts: 216
From: Republic Of Texas!! Temporarily living in KY
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 12-04-2002 09:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 64FalconF-16   Click Here to Email 64FalconF-16     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Mike. Good information in this thread!!

Rick

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