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Author Topic:   And yet again....
kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-01-2002 12:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This past weekend, we got to the track thursday, unloaded the car, warmed it up, and the trans acted "not right". Well, we adjusted the shifter cable, and drove it again, it seemed fine. First pass, [email protected] mph. That was normal. Took the last time trial it still seemed fine. First round of elims, the car started to leave the line, and free reved, crashing the nose to the ground. Oops. Sad thing is, the guy I was racing redlit. We got the car back to the trailer, loaded it up, took it to KK's brother's house and pulled the pan. Everything seemed fine still; it drove fine, all the gears worked, so we loaded it back up, took it back to the track, drove it around the pits, and it seemed normal. Friday, we got there, warmed the car up by driving it around (even tested the brake out on the return road), it still seemed fine, first time run, 6.29 @ 109.3 mph. That's still normal. Next time run, it wouldnt spin the tires in the water box at all. So, David (KK's brother) called thier father and asked if he would bring his car over so I could race it since I had already paid for the weekend and they wouldnt give any refunds. He did (incredibly nice thing of him to do), and I ran first round without ever having drove the car before. Needless to say, I lost. So I bought back, and lost again. (I had no clue where to set the box in his car, so I was WAAAAY off) Friday night, we took my car back to David's, pulled the trans and took it apart. All the forward clutches were fried. The drum was scarred up, the seal on the piston was shot, and a few other minor things were toasted. We replaced them, finished putting the trans in the car saturday morning, got to the track late, unloaded my car, let it run to warm up (first round was already in the staging lanes), I started to drive it up there, pulled it into 2nd gear, and it almost locked the back tires up. Dang. Turned around drove back to the trailer, got in KK's father's car, and took it up there. This time I managed to win first round. But, I lost second round, bought back, and lost third round. Since the forecast for sunday was for such cold weather the track management decided it would be safest if they ran both races saturday. So, second race, I won first round again. Lost second round, but bought back. I won third round, then lost 4th round by breaking out by .001 (I had a .518 bulb to his .526, I ran 7.019 on a 7.02 to his 5.190 on a 5.18. I dont know about you, but I cant judge a 35 mph difference that closely).

My car is still at David's. He is stumped as to why the trans still isnt right. Regardless, it needs to come out and apart again. Thankfully KK's family are all so danged nice. Both her brother for offering to fix my trans, and her dad for letting me drive his racecar.

So all in all, I didnt have a very successful weekend.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-01-2002 12:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds like you guys still had some fun regardless guys.
Now, you say that the directs were fried again. I have a suspision that you (David) may be using the wrong front pump sealing rings. I had the same problem when I had to fix MM's trans in the field myself. Tony's went chasing parts and we relied on the trans vendors to sell us the right seal and ring kit. Unlike the frictions and steels where they are so big that you really can't screw up and install the wrong ones, C-4's and Fords in general have several front pump sealing ring options. They fit the pump fine and the width is correct. It the overall diameter that is different. IN other words they will be too thin and when you slide the pump back in they collapse too much and do not seal correctly.(like putting .030 rings on .060 pistons) I thought that the pump was going in to smooth, but they appeared to fit perfectly. It had been a long time since I had used the steel rings as JPT only uses the teflon versions and I am more used to the feel and fit of those.
Something to look at as long as you guys still have it apart.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

[This message has been edited by Moneymaker (edited 12-01-2002).]

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Mario428
Journeyman

Posts: 61
From: Charlottetown, PEI, Canada
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 12-01-2002 12:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mario428   Click Here to Email Mario428     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The only time I ruined the forward clutches was when I had too much end play in the tranny and the iron sealing rings ruined the grooves in the pump.
New pump and tighten the end play and I was back in business.
The tranny binding up in 2nd sounds like a cross leak in the VB. Hard to get that much cross leak at the pump. There is a gap between the rings and the oil would have to cross over that.
2nd gear servo seals in wrong but no reason to take it out.
Thrashing in the middle of a fustrating weekend is when I would be most likely to misss something obvious.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-01-2002 01:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mario, I believe that we are on the same page.
I agree that KV's problems are associated to some bleed off somewhere.
I also believe that it is "incorrect parts" related, not cracked or possibly broken hardware.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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Fastymz
Moderator

Posts: 11429
From: Reno Nv USA MEM#1240
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 12-01-2002 02:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastymz   Click Here to Email Fastymz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rob sorry to hear that you had problems with your car.It's cool that KK's family was so helpful.
Like ALex said at least you guys had some fun.

SCOOP

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-01-2002 06:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
David had a fresh rebuilt c4 that we took the entire forward drum assembly from and put in mine. I dont know enough about them to explain what he did, so I wont try. I do know when we loaded it at his house it went right on the trailer, easy as can be. The night before, we had to push it on the trailer the clutches were so fried. When I loaded it at the track saturday after the "binding up in 2nd gear" incident, the trans was slipping something terrible again and it never even went down the track. Needless to say, something isnt right, and hopefully David will find it when we pull the trans out again. I will mention to him the sealing rings may have been the wrong ones the last time.

All I know is it is frustrating. I went for so long without any trans problems, now it seems like its all coming back "to get me" at one time.

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kwazykat
Moderator

Posts: 6342
From: ...a wonderful place to be.... orange county... NC!!!! M&M member #92 .... a blue-oval GRRL-deluxe.....
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-01-2002 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kwazykat   Click Here to Email kwazykat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kid vishus:
I dont know enough about them to explain what he did, so I wont try.

All I know is it is frustrating. I went for so long without any trans problems, now it seems like its all coming back "to get me" at one time.


yah....it is very frustrating.... BUT!
NOW is as good a time as any to learn all about your tranny and get hands-on time with all this mess .... david will get everything back on track for ya.... he is relentless and a perfectionist .... he WILL find the problem(s) .... and you will pick up some good experience in his garage.... how cool is that...

i hate it happened but thank goodness this all happened when racing season is winding down.... instead of gearing up....

and anyways.... you looked right danged handsome seated in daddy's car! so there!!


kk


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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 33371
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 12-01-2002 08:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's a pic kk sent in of Kid in kk's dad's car:

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 - '72 Mustang Sprint - '94 F-150

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-01-2002 08:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They could almost be twins!

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 3467
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-01-2002 09:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No kidding! At first glance, I thought maybe Steve mixed up the jpeg files or something!

Kid, sorry about the tough weekend. WAY cool for kk's pop to loan you a ride, that's what I call TRUST I wish I could offer some help with the trans issues

------------------
1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9"

All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html

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jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 1677
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 12-01-2002 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kid, I hate that for you, I had a Three day Thanksgiving bracket race go sour from a breakdown two years ago in Hattiesburg. Turned out to be a slightly bent valve. Car wouldn't run the number. Hey at least you got a second ride AND it was a FORD and a 70 Mustang to boot! How cool is that? You and David will get the problem sorted out, I have no doubt. I couldn't tell you beans about a C4 though I run a powerglitch and only know a couple of things about it, like where the dipstick is, the tailshaft, the simple stuff anyone knows.
GOOD LUCK

------------------
Jerry Smith
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag
70 Mustang retired former footbrake car
"Long ago when men cursed and beat the ground with sticks, it was
called witchcraft.....Today, it's called golf."
"This is FORD Country, on a quiet night you can hear a chevy RUST!"

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-02-2002 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
David says he didnt change the pump sealing rings. He says my trans has the teflon seals so he left them alone. Once we get the trans out, I will let you all know what we find.


Bad thing is, I was feeling pretty good in my car thursday and looking forward to the weeekend. The first pass I had a .508 light and was seeing the tree real well. There's always next year.

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Ken&Shell
Gearhead

Posts: 674
From: Mocksville, NC
Registered: May 2000

posted 12-02-2002 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken&Shell   Click Here to Email Ken&Shell     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It was quite a trip to see Kid in KK's daddy's car. And I had a grand old time keeping Kaylin company. But it was so danged cold I couldnt stand it.. Thank KK for bring extra clothes for me..

Kid, I know you will get it all squared away and get to feel that winner's circle next year.


Shell

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4538
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-07-2002 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
David waas bothered enough about my trans not working he went ahead and pulled it and took it apart without me there to help. He found what he believes the problem was. he said a snap ring in the hi/rev clutch was either coming out, or he didnt get it back in right the first time. He said it was located between the hi/rev drum and the forward drum and he figures it was dragging on the drums when it was in second gear.

Nothing more than a simple mistake that was caused by us trying to hurry to get it put back together to get to the track.

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