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Author Topic:   synthetic oil
two89w
Gearhead

Posts: 302
From: sydney australia
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 12-01-2002 06:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for two89w   Click Here to Email two89w     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
do i have to have a certain amount of miles on my engine before i can put synthetic oil in it?

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cobravenom71
Gearhead

Posts: 927
From: Poinciana, Fl USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 12-01-2002 08:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Generally speaking, no. You can put synthetic in at any time. Used to be believed that synthetic in a new engine would prevent proper break-in, but that is no longer a concern with todays engines. Corvettes, Ferraris, Porches, Mercedes and many others all use Mobil 1 as factory-fill oil.

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 4413
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 12-01-2002 08:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't mean to stir the pot, but on Keith Craft's site he recommends conventional oil for the first 5-6k miles... WTF?

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1965 GT coupe, 333ci aluminum headed/solid cammed stroker, four speed, 3.70:1 9"

All Blue Oval, no blue bottle
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/V8Thumper.html

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1trickpony
Gearhead

Posts: 107
From: Escondido, Ca
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 12-01-2002 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 1trickpony     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Every engine builder I have ever spoken with has recommended putting between 5-10k miles on an engine before going to synthetic oil.

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mustang68mustangs
Gearhead

Posts: 455
From: pittsburgh,pa.usa
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 12-01-2002 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustang68mustangs   Click Here to Email mustang68mustangs     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My 466 was dynoed on Amsoil synthetic and now runs RP with moly rings.I had no problems with rings seating.I hear this arguement so often.Seems everyone has a different opinion.
Bob

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Buster
Gearhead

Posts: 1466
From: Hurricane alley
Registered: May 2002

posted 12-01-2002 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster   Click Here to Email Buster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's not a good idea to change to synthetic oil with a high mileage engine that has any sludge... lots of cleaners in synthetic oil and it will break down the sludge... and end up in the pickup screen.

btw, cobravenom71, Kissimee? I'm in South Orlando...

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26513
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-01-2002 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One FACT that I DO know is that when Mercury Marine supplied the engines to chebbie for the ZR-1 they were all dynoed and broken in with petrolem oil. That was then drained and replaced with Mobil One.
Another thing I know for a FACT is in the mid 90's several engine builders from stock to Pro Stock have all tried synthetic oil on new engines. NONE of them ever sealed up on the Dyno. They all had to be pulled down, honed and rerung. Steve Schmidt is one of them as is Bob Glidden.
I know of at least 5 more.
I would put at least 500 miles on a street engine before switching over to synthetic.
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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

[This message has been edited by Moneymaker (edited 12-01-2002).]

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cobravenom71
Gearhead

Posts: 927
From: Poinciana, Fl USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 12-01-2002 12:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First of all, being 'run-in' on dino-oil for a few minutes, or even a few hours is not the same as being 'broken-in' over several thousand miles under load.Mercury Marine may have run-in the ZR-1 motors on dino, and that will certainly help the parts seat faster, but it has never been proven that breaking-in a factory street-driven motor on synthetic causes ring seal or any other abnormal issues.
Full race engines, such as used by Mr.Glidden and others are a completely different set of circumstances, where rapid and consistent ring seating/sealing and swarf/flash wear-in are necessary, since they don't have the capability to break-in the motors over several thousand miles of use.
There are still many experts(and I don't mean that sarcastically) who live by the 12,000 mile petroleum 'break-in' theory. I was the same for many, many years. With the experience I have had, and the knowledge gleaned from many lubrication engineers, I no longer feel it is necessary.
This debate will probably rage on until the end of time. Or at least until the end of oil.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26513
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-01-2002 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Years ago when we all used hammers and chisels to hone our blocks and when we had rings with 500 lbs of tension I don't think that it would have been an issue.
With todays ultra fine honing techniques, ultra light ring tensions, and loose piston to wall, ring seal is critical. Both OEM production and race engines enjoy the benefits of increased power and fuel economy due to friction loss associated with the "looser is better" technology.

Do whatever you feel comfortable with on your personal new engine break/run in's.

I don't and do not recomend installing synthetic oil on a brand new or fresh engine.


PS, I know Glidden well enough to call him Bob.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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capri man
Gearhead

Posts: 6652
From: doerun, ga.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-01-2002 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for capri man   Click Here to Email capri man     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Buster:
[B]It's not a good idea to change to synthetic oil with a high mileage engine that has any sludge... lots of cleaners in synthetic oil and it will break down the sludge... and end up in the pickup screen.

yup, been there and done that with wifes explorer. the amazing thing was that she drove it 15-20 miles with 0 oil pressure and it done no noticible damage. i put a new screen on it and the oil pressure is just as good as ever.
on my new race engines i will race them 2-3 weekends with reg. oil then change to mobil 1.

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mike r
racing is real
everything else is just a game.
81 capri-7.51 @89mph 1/8
1.54 60 ft.
http://prestage.com/site/site_display.asp?SiteID=141

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two89w
Gearhead

Posts: 302
From: sydney australia
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 12-01-2002 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for two89w   Click Here to Email two89w     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
my engine has done about 2000 mile so is it safe?

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cobravenom71
Gearhead

Posts: 927
From: Poinciana, Fl USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 12-01-2002 05:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cobravenom71   Click Here to Email cobravenom71     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Probably safe, assuming you mean 2,000 miles on a new engine, and not 2,000 miles since you changed to synthetic on a high-milege leaker.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26513
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-01-2002 08:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
10-4 on safe.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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Buster
Gearhead

Posts: 1466
From: Hurricane alley
Registered: May 2002

posted 12-02-2002 12:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster   Click Here to Email Buster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How much differance, ET wize, will synthetic oil make in the 1/4?

I have been running 20/50 Valvoline racing oil... if I changed to synthetic, what kinda change would I see?

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26513
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-02-2002 01:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.005 to .010 is not uncommon with Royal Purple #9 or #11.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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