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Author Topic:   Roller cam/spring question
Dad Vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 1064
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 10-31-2002 03:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dad Vishus   Click Here to Email Dad Vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I haven't got all the particulars for the cam, but here is my question on the 351C in the Falcon I recently bought.

The valve springs currently in the motor are Crower triples. The seat pressure is fairly low, for a roller, while open pressure is fairly high. Again, I don't have the exact figures. The only problem the previous owner had with this motor was it ate cam bearings fairly quickly.

In KVs Cleveland, he runs double springs with high seat pressure like 240# and relatively low open pressure, and the motor is never hard on cam bearings.

We are assuming that the high open spring pressures are the problem for the cam bearings. This being the case, would double springs with similar pressure settings be advisable?

Along the same lines, KVs motors have had a tendency to break the cam indexing pin. He has since started double pinning them. The motor in the Falcon has never broken a pin. My theory is that with high seat pressures, it takes more force to start the valves opening, thus more stress on the pin. Maybe I'm way off on this, but I can't think of anything else, short of dumb luck. If I do change to double springs this winter, I am going to get the cam/sprocket double pinned.

Lastly, Alex, chime in anytime, would it be advisable to run synthetic oil if I leave the spring setup as is. Do the rollers tend to slide rather than roll under high spring pressures with synthetic oil?

The motor in the Falcon had 110 passes on it all season. With no more passes than that, I'm inclined to not do too much to it this winter other than the above possibilities.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-31-2002 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
High quality roller lifters do NOT tend to slide on any oil much less synthetic oil. I am a proponant of high seat, lower open pressures.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 10-31-2002 04:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If I remember correctly, Steve, (the former owner of the falcon) told me that his springs were around 200 lbs on the seat, but over 700 lbs open. Mine are 250 on the seat, and 640 or so open (if I remembered that last part right).

I think the "synthetic is bad with rollers" idea came from Crower. I know all the valvetrain stuff in that car is Crower, and Crower still strongly opposes anyone to use synthetic oil with their roller lifters. They need to get an R&D/PR man in there who is a little more up to date with the current technology.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-31-2002 04:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well remember guys, Crower did get out of the cam business also.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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Dad Vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 1064
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 10-31-2002 04:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dad Vishus   Click Here to Email Dad Vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am going to cut open the oil filter that is on the car to look for bearing material. The oil has 7 passes on it, hopefully that will be enough to see bearing material.That may be the deciding factor on what I do or don't do this winter.

Other than cam bearings possibly being a problem, no more than the car was run last year, I'm thinking that I may put purple oil in the thing, go back and seal up all the leaks that I'll find, and go racing.

It has a Hamburger pan on it that Steve said din't fit very well.

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 1341
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-31-2002 05:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Well remember guys, Crower did get out of the cam business also.


Am I missing a Joke here? Crower still has a cam catalog.......

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-31-2002 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not a joke, Crower has cut their cam selection by 75%. They still make some of the BEST engine componants out there.
I use their connecting rods and they make a great Severe duty roller lifter also.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

IP: Logged

Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 1341
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-31-2002 07:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Not a joke, Crower has cut their cam selection by 75%. They still make some of the BEST engine componants out there.
I use their connecting rods and they make a great Severe duty roller lifter also.


Crower and Isky were the only two cam companies that had Phone monkeys that knew anything. I mean Comp had guys too dumb to work for Summit :O
Of course I happened to get Brian Crower that day.....

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