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Author Topic:   Carb issues: running rich, need help
'69Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 205
From: Detroit, MI USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 10-29-2002 11:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for '69Stang   Click Here to Email '69Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm running a Quik-fuel modified carb which is essentially a Holley 950 HP. I had to pull the heads after 40 miles because of a part failure and noticed that the plugs and chambers were very carboned and sooty. Anyway I changed to bigger air-bleeds (from 70's to 72's) and re-adjusted the idle mix screws and the car seemed to run fine. Plugs looked normal. Two weeks later the engine starts "popping" and running roughly, I pulled 3 plugs last night and they are sooty and carboned up - but dry, not oily. The only thing that might complicate this is that I'm using an Edelbrock foam, trianular air cleaner - you know, the one that looks like a fly eye - because it was the only one that I could get to fit under my hood scoop. It is damaged from some back-firing and I think it is very restrictive and might be contributing to the rich fuel condition.

Anyway, I'm going to go to a less restrictive K&N air filter and I'll drive it to see if the plugs clean up at all. Any suggestions on how to clear up this rich condition? Should I jet down the primaries? Go to a bigger idle air-bleeeds? Should I change the off idle/high sped air bleeds? I'm wondering if the carb is just "too big" for my little street cleveland.

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'69 Mustang Fastback, 351C, Holley 950 HP, New Parker Funnelweb,4-v quench heads ported, 10.75:1, UD pulley, windage tray, Top Loader, 3.89 9" rear

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-29-2002 12:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Spark plugs?? Brand and part number??

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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64FalconF-16
Gearhead

Posts: 233
From: Republic Of Texas!! Temporarily living in KY
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-29-2002 12:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 64FalconF-16   Click Here to Email 64FalconF-16     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not familiar with the 950 HP. Holley carb though.

Does the HP have a power valve?

If it does and the car backfired. You will most likely have a hole in it that will cause a rich condition at idle.

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'69Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 205
From: Detroit, MI USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 10-29-2002 02:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for '69Stang   Click Here to Email '69Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Moneymaker: AWSF 32c Motorcraft. I forgot to mention that the weather just changed here in Michigan: 40 degree days might be fattening up the mixture and fouling the plugs.

64FalcolnF-16: I changed the power valve to a 3.5.

Maybe I should jet this carb down for the cold weather?

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'69 Mustang Fastback, 351C, Holley 950 HP, New Parker Funnelweb,4-v quench heads ported, 10.75:1, UD pulley, windage tray, Top Loader, 3.89 9" rear

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-29-2002 02:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good plug choice.
When I used to street drive my "hot" cars all year round, I always went up one heat range in spark plugs for cold weather driving. they did not foul out near as often.
I would just go up to a 42 plug and leave the jetting alone so it still starts well in the cold.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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'69Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 205
From: Detroit, MI USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 10-29-2002 03:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for '69Stang   Click Here to Email '69Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex - thanks for the "tip". I will change the plugs. Gapped at around .040?

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-29-2002 05:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.035 to .040 max.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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'69Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 205
From: Detroit, MI USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 10-30-2002 08:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for '69Stang   Click Here to Email '69Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cool, thanks

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7DMACH1
Gearhead

Posts: 2718
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 10-30-2002 09:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 7DMACH1   Click Here to Email 7DMACH1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Question on the plugs. Clevelands call for ASF plugs and your useing AWSF'S. Is this correct and if so what's the advantage to useing AWSF'S??? RAY

------------------
RAY, THE WISE [email protected]@ PHILLY GUY!!
CLICK FOR MY PHOTO ALBUM http://community.webshots.com/album/41183413shedxk

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7DMACH1
Gearhead

Posts: 2718
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 10-30-2002 10:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 7DMACH1   Click Here to Email 7DMACH1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
An ASF spark plug is .460 reach. An AWSF is .708 reach. I don't see how you could use them?????? RAY

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RAY, THE WISE [email protected]@ PHILLY GUY!!
CLICK FOR MY PHOTO ALBUM http://community.webshots.com/album/41183413shedxk

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'69Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 205
From: Detroit, MI USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 11-01-2002 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for '69Stang   Click Here to Email '69Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex: I ran AWSF 32C's in my Cleveland is this a no, no?

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7DMACH1
Gearhead

Posts: 2718
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 11-01-2002 04:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 7DMACH1   Click Here to Email 7DMACH1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here,s what some other people had to say on another site. Ray
Ray,
Thanks for email, now I remember.

I won't use it.
Any extra thread expose through the combustion chamber can cause hot spot for detonation and piston may hit the spark plug.

If it doesn't hit the piston, it'll cause hot spots.
Anybody knows a sharp edge in combustion chamber can easily cause hot spot and invited detonation.

Idealy the threads should not go beyond the combustion chamber.

Even if it doesn't detonation, I doubt if they would give you any performance advantages.


__________________
V_Racing
Ford EFI & Ford Automatic Trans Guru.

KwikHotRod Imagines

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October 31st, 2002 09:33 AM



dynodan
Bench Racer

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Canton, Michigan
Posts: 65

V_Racing is correct except for the detonation part. Although the end result will be close to the same, the term is called "Pre Ignition". Pre Ignition and Detonation are different although both are destructive to your engine. Anyway, keep the ASF or equivalent in there and you'll be fine. Who ever told you to run the AWSF obviously doesn't know as much as he thinks. There would be no noticable performance gain and depending on the heat range you could put a nice hole in a piston in a heartbeat. Take care, DAN

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October 31st, 2002 10:02 PM



------------------
RAY, THE WISE [email protected]@ PHILLY GUY!!
CLICK FOR MY PHOTO ALBUM http://community.webshots.com/album/41183413shedxk

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7DMACH1
Gearhead

Posts: 2718
From: PHILA. PA.
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 11-01-2002 04:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 7DMACH1   Click Here to Email 7DMACH1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's the e-mail I sent Alex and his reply. RAY
1970 Mach1 and 86 5.0 Capri


Registered: January 2002
Location: Phila. PA.

I e-mailed Alex at Mustangs and More who 69Stang had also asked about his problem. Please read what he said. RAY

Alex, in the tread about running rich, 69Stang said he was using AWSF-32-C plugs. A Cleveland calls for ASF-42-C. An ASF plug has a .460 reach and an AWSF has .708 reach. Your reply was good choice of plugs. Is this correct to run an AWSF plug and what are the advantages?

Thanx

RAY[7DMACH1]


REPLY
NO, no, no, ASF 42 or 42C. I never said AWSF for a Cleveland. The AW's will hit the pistons. Alex

Alex Denysenko
Moneymaker Racing

NHRA 3038 SS/LA national record holder
NHRA 3305 Stock

IHRA 5038 SS/LA national record holder
IHRA 5305 Stock

Coadministrator www.mustangsandmore.com


__________________
Lincoln Mercury Parts Mgr. in Philly for 33 years. 1970 Mach1 408C Stroker, 86 Mercury Capri 5.0, 5 spd. CLICK ON MY PHOTO ALBUM.
http://community.webshots.com/album/41183413shedxk

------------------
RAY, THE WISE [email protected]@ PHILLY GUY!!
CLICK FOR MY PHOTO ALBUM http://community.webshots.com/album/41183413shedxk

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 11-01-2002 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, Ray is correct. I missed the "W" part. :
You need to use ASF or AF 42's or 32's or 22's depending on what you are trying to accomplish. The long reach plug can cause several problems.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
MCA member# 53321
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
Quote #2: "Make sure brain is in gear before engaging mouth!"
Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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'69Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 205
From: Detroit, MI USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 11-01-2002 04:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for '69Stang   Click Here to Email '69Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Ray and Alex. I believed you on the 42C's, I just wasn't sure if it also applied on the 32C's. Thanks again, I picked up a set of the ASF's last night.

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'69Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 205
From: Detroit, MI USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 11-04-2002 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for '69Stang   Click Here to Email '69Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I put in the ASF 42C spark plugs and the engine runs like a raped ape!! Unbelievable. BTW, the ASWF's and the ASF's were exactly the same length.

------------------
'69 Mustang Fastback, 351C, Holley 950 HP, New Parker Funnelweb,4-v quench heads ported, 10.75:1, UD pulley, windage tray, Top Loader, 3.89 9" rear

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