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Author Topic:   Cam suggestion
FASTFORD
Journeyman

Posts: 53
From: USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 10-23-2002 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FASTFORD   Click Here to Email FASTFORD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've decided to get a cam for a hopefully significant power improvement. This is what I got:289 engine (originally a c-code) with original cam and heads, only things not original are the holley 600 cfm 4bbl, the edelbrock performer manifold, the hooker competition headers, the dual flowmaster exhaust, and flex fan, soon to install a 4-hole carb spacer. The tranny is a c-4 (stock). The car has just been restored and has less than 3,000 miles on it. I know that if you go for a big cam, you have to get a bigger stall converter. I want the biggest cam I can run so that I get maximum horsepower, without having to get a new stall converter. Since I'm spending the money on a new cam, I want the best suited one for what I want: lots more power, spending less than $500 installed.
thanks in advance

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1967 Mustang coupe
originally a c-code 289 with a c-4 tranny, I added holley 600cfm 4bbl, edelbrock performer intake manifold, hooker headers, and dual flowmaster exhaust. interior is stock with a kenwood cd player

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johnmustang
Gearhead

Posts: 2364
From: Vancouver Island , British Columbia , Canada
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 10-23-2002 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for johnmustang   Click Here to Email johnmustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you don,t want to change your converter I think the biggest you will be able to go with in your 289 would be a 268 or maybe a 270 , but , thats it. I am sure you will get a more accurate response from Alex , Steve or the miriad of other M&M folks that have more experience then I do.


JOHN

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65 2+2 FASTBACK
68 COUPE (SOLD)
87 TAURUS WAGON
98 F150 XLT TRITON V8 4.6, 4 WHEEL DRIVE
Member:Vancouver Island Mustang Association
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FASTFORD
Journeyman

Posts: 53
From: USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 10-23-2002 07:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FASTFORD   Click Here to Email FASTFORD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Some of the cams that I am looking at are: Comp cam "nostagia plus", edelbrock "performer RPM", Lunati "Bracket master II", and ford racing cam

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1967 Mustang coupe
originally a c-code 289 with a c-4 tranny, I added holley 600cfm 4bbl, edelbrock performer intake manifold, hooker headers, and dual flowmaster exhaust. interior is stock with a kenwood cd player

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 1968
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 10-23-2002 07:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do you have some specs handy? I know the Edelbrock RPM is close to a hydraulic version of Comp's 270S with a bit more exhaust duration. That's the cam I run (270S) in my stroker, backed by a four speed. It does have some idle chop , so I'm not sure I'd recommend it with a stock converter. But like John said, Alex or either Steve give you more accurate info

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FASTFORD
Journeyman

Posts: 53
From: USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 10-23-2002 07:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FASTFORD   Click Here to Email FASTFORD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
COMP NOSTAGIA:
Specifications:
* Advertised duration: 266 intake/273 exhaust
* Duration at .050 in.: 219 intake/226 exhaust
* Gross valve lift: .480 in. intake/.475 in. exhaust
* Lobe separation: 112 degrees

EDELBROCK:
Specifications:
* Advertised duration: 290/300 degrees
* Duration at .050 in.: 224 intake/234 exhaust degrees
* Gross valve lift: .496/.520
* Lobe separation: 112 degrees
* RPM range: 1,500 to 6,500

LUNATI:
Specifications:
* Advertised duration: 284 intake/284 exhaust
* Duration at .050 in. cam lift: 218 intake/218 exhaust
* Gross valve lift: .488 in. intake/.488 in. exhaust
* Lobe separation: 110 degrees
* RPM range: 1,500 to 5,000
* Good idle

FORD:
Advertised duration: 290 intake/300 exhaust
Duration at .050 in. cam lift: 214 intake/224 exhaust
Gross valve lift: .472 in. intake/.496 in. exhaust
Lobe separation: 107 degrees intake/117 degress exhaust
Peak horsepower rpm: 5,000
Peak torque rpm: 3,500
RPM range: 3,000-6,500


anything else i need to worry about? such as piston clearance or something else?

[This message has been edited by FASTFORD (edited 10-23-2002).]

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 602
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-24-2002 06:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The "Nostalgia" cam looks a lot like the old Ford Muscleparts/OHO cam I ran in a 289 in 1980.
Worked great on the street.
Alex, do you remember what the specs were for the Hyd. "Hipo" cam listed in the OHO parts books?

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mustangzrule
Journeyman

Posts: 87
From: Orion, MI
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 10-24-2002 09:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangzrule   Click Here to Email mustangzrule     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like the Nostalgia numbers for a 302 with the Performer manifold.

If you jump to the Perf RPM manifold, I would consider using the Edelbrock cam.
This is based on streetability and best parts match. A convertor would help with the second combo, but not required. You would do okay to use your stock convertor if your differential is a 3.55-3.80 or you are running a toploader with a 3.10-3.55 or so. If you have my 2.79 gears, you NEED a convertor with the Edelbrock cam or a moped would beat you off the line.

My $.02

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mustangboy
Gearhead

Posts: 291
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 10-24-2002 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangboy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What gear ratio are you running?Keep in mind with 9:1 compression and a stock converter and probably highway gears your gonna want to stay pretty conservative.For example the ford cams power range is from 3000-6500,its gonna be a real dog until you get it wound up .Your stock convertor stalls at probably only about 1800 rpms (just guessing) but you can see the hole in the power you would have.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 15047
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-24-2002 10:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All that I remember for sure about the OHO cam is .466 lift. I think the duration was 222 @ .050, but won't swear to it.

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FASTFORD
Journeyman

Posts: 53
From: USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 10-24-2002 01:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FASTFORD   Click Here to Email FASTFORD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If I decided to get a stall converter, how much would it cost? Also, I really want to know how much a cam will make me faster and give power...how much faster will I be?

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mustangzrule
Journeyman

Posts: 87
From: Orion, MI
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 10-25-2002 10:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangzrule   Click Here to Email mustangzrule     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How fast are you now and what else is in your drivetrain? Knowing your differential ratio would really help us. A cam can make a big difference to none at all depending on your other parts.

You probably don't have traction problems yet.?

Power will only be available to you in the RPM range of your engine combo. And you want to hook up everything you make or it's all in vain.

For less than $500 on a stock 289 "C" engine to get the most power from what you already have, I think that you would be better off with a set of used aftermarket iron heads or some off a 351W. The stock cam will work great with your stock convertor. Once you get the next $500 to spend, you already have the heads to run a bigger cam and higher stall convertor. A decent convertor can be had for about $300. There are cheaper ones out there if you feel lucky. I have had decent luck with the TCI steel 10" (2500~3000 stall) for $200.

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FASTFORD
Journeyman

Posts: 53
From: USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 10-25-2002 01:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FASTFORD   Click Here to Email FASTFORD     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have 2.79 gears in the rear. How much quarter mile time will it take off??

------------------
1967 Mustang coupe
originally a c-code 289 with a c-4 tranny, I added holley 600cfm 4bbl, edelbrock performer intake manifold, hooker headers, and dual flowmaster exhaust. interior is stock with a kenwood cd player

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mustangzrule
Journeyman

Posts: 87
From: Orion, MI
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 10-25-2002 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangzrule   Click Here to Email mustangzrule     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's an 8" open right? I'd say you have a couple options, but a bigger cam will disappoint you off the line with the 2.79 and a stock stall C4. It will be a DOG until you hit about 40 MPH, but you can push it to about 65 in first gear. This is the same combo I started with and I opted for the big bucks stroker, but could have done this with a lot less:

First, port or replace those heads. If you can port your own, that's great. Start with 351W heads for some instant gains. The stock 289/302 and even 351W have breathing problems that a cam will not help with those gears. You could get some World Products pieces for a little more than what you look to spend on the cam. That would make a difference and leave you room to expand further when the next paycheck comes in. You can expect anywhere between 20-50 HP increase with a head swap. It's the best place to start for the ultimate street machine.

Your carb is perfect for your CID, the intake is a decent piece for street and occasional strip use, you already have headers, probably a 2.25 inch exhaust.

The cam range I recommend would be on the order of 225-235 @ 050, but only after you change the heads and prepare to buy a convertor at the same time. I'd stick with a 2500-3000 stall unless you want to live at the strip.

Another alternative is a little more expensive, but a T5 conversion would make your 2.79 gears seem a little more launch friendly. The swap can cost from 700-1500 depending on your sources, build levels and such. Or you could swap that 2.79 open for a 3.55 posi and prepare to launch to the moon. Don't go higher than 3.55 with that C4 or forget the hiway.

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65Restomod.com
Journeyman

Posts: 23
From: Spring, TX United States
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 10-28-2002 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65Restomod.com   Click Here to Email 65Restomod.com     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What is the max lift cam you can go with on those stock heads? I upgraded the heads on my 289 as well as the cam, but the cam I went with was the Comp Cams - Extreme Energy Cam (XE284H - .544 lift) It has a rough idle but a good high rpm power band for the 289. I also went with TCI 3000 Stall as well. Only had the car running for few months and ran a 14.04 with a serious stumble off the line and what I think were ignition problems past 6200rpms. I am still trying to tune the carb in and correct the ignition issue, but it should be easily under 13.5's. Here are the specs on my car if you are interested. http://www.65restomod.com/Jeff_Specs.htm

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http://65Restomod.com

[This message has been edited by 65Restomod.com (edited 10-28-2002).]

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MidLifCrisis
Gearhead

Posts: 134
From: USA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 10-28-2002 10:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MidLifCrisis   Click Here to Email MidLifCrisis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
FASTFORD: You are about where I am in the search for HP. I have a '67 convert with a 289-2V, C-4 and 2.79:1 rear. I have added a factory 4-V manifold and a Holley carb. Like you I am leaving the trans stock, but may change the rear gear. I would like to build the engine this winter and have been shopping the catalogs. I have also e-mailed Edelbrock and CompCams for recommendations. Edelbrock suggested using the Performer instead of the RPM. Compcams suggested the XE262 cam with I/E of 262/270 duration and .493/.500 lift. I think the factories suggested these due to retaining the stock torque converter and rear gear. As for improvement, I think you will find that a change in the heads will really improve what you already have. For the most "bang for the buck" I am planning on adding the GT-40P heads. They are $540 for an assembled pair and flow 25-30% more than stock. They will require the addition of headers due to a raised port design, but they are the least expensive head I have found and offer a substantual increase. If you want even more flow World Products have their Windsor/Roush heads, and the selection of aluminum heads is mind boggling. If you want aluminum and already have an Edelbrock intake, I would go for their matching heads if you can swing the $1100. As for speed, I once timed a bone-stock 289-2V, C-4 at 16.1 in the 1/4. I would think these mod's would get you in the mid 15's or better with a decent rear. I just don't want to sacrifice the cruise-ability of my car for a 1/4 pass, so I won't go beyond 3.55 for my rear. I would love to see 14's, but I will wait until I can afford a blower to get past there. Hope this helps, Charlie

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Rustang
Gearhead

Posts: 352
From: Dubois PA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-29-2002 05:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rustang   Click Here to Email Rustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd have to agree you'll be beatin' a dead horse trying to overcome those 2.79 gears with that little 289! Swap in something in the 3.50-4.00:1 range. Deeper gears will also help compensate for the stock converter.
IMO change gears, then think about a cam swap. (if you do alot of traveling, you might want to build up a seperate pumpkin with the deeper gears so you can swap them out easily)

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'68 mustang 351 clevor- [email protected]
'67 Stang, 351W [email protected]
'69 351C [email protected]
'78 Pickup [email protected]
'79 Pickup 460 ET=??

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 865
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 10-29-2002 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A few years back we built a '67 289 Mustang for my sons first car and it had the Lunati 284 cam. It also had a Holley 600, Performer intake, with a 2.80 open rear, C4 auto, stock heads and exhaust manifolds. It would run anywhere from 15.20-15.00 depending on traction. It had good gas mileage, good idle, and eventually broke 2nd gear and a rockerarm stud. He sold it and bought a truck.

Next I built my own '66 289 Mustang with the Lunati 292 cam, ported stock heads with 1.85/1.55 Manley valves, Hooker headers, Rpm intake, Holley 600, 4speed, and 3.70 posi. It would run 13.80 with stock tires, and 13.30 with drag radials. The idle shook the whole car but it was a blast to drive!

If you upgrade the cam, I would suggest installing recommended springs and decent rocker arms also. The stock rockers can hit and break off the rocker studs if you over rev the motor!
You should also consider a stall converter if you go bigger than a 260 duration cam with an automatic. Hope you have better luck than we did with your C4 auto.

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MidLifCrisis
Gearhead

Posts: 134
From: USA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 10-29-2002 07:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MidLifCrisis   Click Here to Email MidLifCrisis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bluestreek:
A few years back we built a '67 289 Mustang for my sons first car and it had the Lunati 284 cam. It also had a Holley 600, Performer intake, with a 2.80 open rear, C4 auto, stock heads and exhaust manifolds. It would run anywhere from 15.20-15.00 depending on traction. It had good gas mileage, good idle, and eventually broke 2nd gear and a rockerarm stud. He sold it and bought a truck.

Next I built my own '66 289 Mustang with the Lunati 292 cam, ported stock heads with 1.85/1.55 Manley valves, Hooker headers, Rpm intake, Holley 600, 4speed, and 3.70 posi. It would run 13.80 with stock tires, and 13.30 with drag radials. The idle shook the whole car but it was a blast to drive!

If you upgrade the cam, I would suggest installing recommended springs and decent rocker arms also. The stock rockers can hit and break off the rocker studs if you over rev the motor!
You should also consider a stall converter if you go bigger than a 260 duration cam with an automatic. Hope you have better luck than we did with your C4 auto.


This is what I love about this forum! Everybody has tried different combos according to their preferences. Thousands of dollars of research and development all on the 'net for free! It either helps you immensely or confuses the crap out of you...

Charlie

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