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Author Topic:   Nitriding parts
jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 2954
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 10-14-2002 01:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What do you think? Yes, No, maybe? Which parts? Reason I ask is a buddy of mine works for a large Gas compressor company and they have a GIANT nitriding machine. he slips parts in there all the time and offered to do my stuff. What do you guys think is there any CONS to this procedure?

------------------
Jerry Smith
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag
70 Mustang retired former footbrake car
"If You can't Run with the Big Dogs Stay on the Porch!"

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jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 2954
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 10-14-2002 02:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe this will help. This is from a information site my friend sent me to.

Nitriding is classed as a low temperature thermochemical treatment. It is undertaken in an atmosphere capable of supplying nitrogen to the surface of the components being treated. At temperatures between 400C and 590C, the nitrogen supplied diffuses into the workpiece surface to a depth dependent on time and temperature. The nitrogen may come from the decomposition of ammonia gas or from a nitrogen/hydrogen atmosphere activated by a plasma.

Nitrogen combines with nitride forming elements such as Cr, Al, V, Ti, and Mo, forming fine scale precipitates which strengthen the surface region. Nitriding steels usually contain a combination of these elements. Selection of the appropriate steel is required to ensure that the correct hardness and depth of hardening are achieved. The hardness and shape of the hardness profile produced is dependent on the material and its starting condition. Steels, which require nitriding, are normally in a hardened, tempered and fully stabilised condition prior to nitriding.

so what do you think?

Jerry

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-14-2002 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had a cast 1X crank nitrited for the first time. I was cracked in 3 places during the process and we did not catch it. Extreme caution must be used when treating critical parts.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member and licensed Superstock driver
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NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
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Quote #1: "I never met a magazine mechanic I liked."
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Quote #3: "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"

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jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 2954
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 10-14-2002 09:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex, Was it the process that cracked it?
I am suprised there aren't any more opinions on thuis subject, it is a very contraversial procedure as far as I can tell from other racers Iv'e heard from. All the BIG rotating machinery manufacturers do it. (Cooper-Bessemer, Ingersol-Rand, etc..) Thanks Alex for responding! I guess the jury is still out.
Jerry

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 4681
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 10-14-2002 09:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is this a similar process to cyrogenically treating parts? I think the roundie-round guys cyro-treat valvesprings and other valvetrain-related parts. You could always drop Hendrick Motorsports a line and ask them

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Just Strokin
Gearhead

Posts: 754
From: Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 10-14-2002 09:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Just Strokin   Click Here to Email Just Strokin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The only item that I can think that might even need nitriding would be the cast crank. If the cost is reasonable or free, get your buddy to do one. I think you would have to have the crank straightened when you get it back.

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Larry

No fast Fords at this time but one fine cruising 96 F350 CC DRW Power Strokin diesel.
And one rusty 64 Fairlane nick-named the Rust Bucket....And sometimes called the Money Pit...

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jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 2954
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 10-15-2002 12:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cranks are the most common items, that and rods.
Larry, he said it would cost me shipping only.
V8 thumper, Drag racers are doing this also. I am not sure about ther cyrogenic part but I know they do bombard the piece with Nitrogen at very LOW temperatures, somehow this hardens the surface and just below the surface.

Jerry

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Mike Harris
Gearhead

Posts: 122
From: Oakfield, Ga USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 10-15-2002 09:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Harris   Click Here to Email Mike Harris     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jerry,
Been busy and haven't been online in a while. I have been down the nitriding road. It is not really expensive, and if done right, is a good investment. In your case, no out of pocket money. On a crankshaft, it will harden down .020-.030, which is good because I have never seen one come back that did not atleast need to be polished. You'll end up with around a 60-Rockwell on the surface, which if I remember right, you start out in the mid-30's. It is critical to keep the process in the 950*-975* range. Above that and the crank can distort, or like in Alex's case...crack. The journals also typically "grow" or swell .003-.005 too, that's why I say it will atleast need to be polished.
That said, nitriding (or any other treatment) will not make the crank stronger. What it does is make the surface harder to resist abrasion. In essence, the bearings will wear before the crank due to trash, grit, sand, detonation, load, poor lube, overheating, or whatever. Magnafluxing AFTER the treatment is a very good idea. Hope this helps.

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Mike Harris
MKZ Racing
home.isoa.net/~mharrisj

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jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 2954
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 10-15-2002 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Mike! You da man! really helped, I think I'll put it off till next tear down then address it.
Jerry

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