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Author Topic:   Electrical/Electronics Problem
65_302
Gearhead

Posts: 157
From: Bixby, OK
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 09-23-2002 11:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_302   Click Here to Email 65_302     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do automatic trannies put off more heat than manuals?

The reason I asked is the money pit intermitantly started losing rpms today (almost to zero) after the car warmed up when it was under load (about 3K). We just put a new C4 with transbrake in and it seems hotter inside the car now. Also, we mounted the rev limiter box in the floor of the passenger side and I was thinking extra heat may be interferring with the signal. When I stop it goes back to normal rpms and runs ok. The new transbrake and the box are wired through a relay to a button on the shifter handle. They both have individual quick disconnects and I have both disconnected. Any thoughts on what it could be?

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65_289
Gearhead

Posts: 701
From:
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 09-23-2002 11:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_289   Click Here to Email 65_289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So it fell to almost zero rpms right after you brought it up to 3k? Am I hearing you right?

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Just Strokin
Gearhead

Posts: 754
From: Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 09-24-2002 07:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Just Strokin   Click Here to Email Just Strokin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, an automatic generates more heat than a manual tranny. An autoamtic has slippage in the clutches and bands that aren't found in a manual tranny. This slippage occurs during gear changes and you actually at times have the tranny in two gears. One appling and one releasing.

When you activate the transbrake, the tranny will generate tremendous amounts of heat as you are forcing the low reverse clutch pack to lock up and the reverse band. You don't want to activate the transbrake no longer than absolutely necessay.

This heat is why you should pay close attention to band settings and clutch pack clearances. Too much clearance will cause slippage and not enuff with cause overlap on shifts. Both will generate more heat than usual.

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65_302
Gearhead

Posts: 157
From: Bixby, OK
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 09-24-2002 08:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_302   Click Here to Email 65_302     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, after driving for 5 - 6 miles it started the intermittent loss of rpms. But, at idle it recovered and ldled normal. It never did die. Just seemed like it want to. To me, it appeared to be a loss of electrical/electronic signal.

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65_302
Gearhead

Posts: 157
From: Bixby, OK
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 09-24-2002 08:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_302   Click Here to Email 65_302     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have not activated the transbrake, so I know it's not that. Its not even connected. I will leave that to the racer in the family.

It just seemed like there was more heat inside the car than there was before the swap but from what I hear you saying, that is normal. Need to add some heat shield padding under the carpet. Probably need to relocate the box too.

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65_289
Gearhead

Posts: 701
From:
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 09-24-2002 09:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_289   Click Here to Email 65_289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 65_302:
I have not activated the transbrake, so I know it's not that. Its not even connected. I will leave that to the racer in the family.

It just seemed like there was more heat inside the car than there was before the swap but from what I hear you saying, that is normal. Need to add some heat shield padding under the carpet. Probably need to relocate the box too.


I think Alex has his box inside the car, FWIW...

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rockafellz
Gearhead

Posts: 914
From: San Lorenzo, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 09-24-2002 11:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rockafellz   Click Here to Email rockafellz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Vacuum leak maybe? Maybe check your vacuum modulator or vacuum lines that run from the intake to the transmission.

Does it shift into second? Third?

Erik

------------------
1966 Ford Mustang 2+2
Mine - Restomod in Progress

1966 Ford Mustang Coupe
Dad's - Original Unrestored

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65_302
Gearhead

Posts: 157
From: Bixby, OK
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 09-24-2002 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_302   Click Here to Email 65_302     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Its a manual valve body. I don't think they have vaccum lines to the tranny when its a manual valve body, but I know nada about automatics.

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65_289
Gearhead

Posts: 701
From:
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 09-24-2002 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_289   Click Here to Email 65_289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What gear & what speed does it happen?

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65_302
Gearhead

Posts: 157
From: Bixby, OK
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 09-24-2002 04:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_302   Click Here to Email 65_302     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
3rd and ~3K, or 2nd around 2K - 2.5K. It happened first while crusing at 3K. Then when I started to exit the expressway and the tach started going down then it died to almost rezo, then back up to ~2.5K. When I slowed down and downshifted, it was ok. Then when I stopped it was ok. Just seems to do it under load. Will check it out more this weekend after I find out why its running so rich.

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65_302
Gearhead

Posts: 157
From: Bixby, OK
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 09-25-2002 08:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_302   Click Here to Email 65_302     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BTW, I fixed the increased heat inside the car. I turned the heater's blower fan off

The fan is so weak you can't hear it over the exhaust/fuel pump/gears. Must have accidently hit it when working on the new shifter hook up. Live and learn.

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69 Sportsroof
Gearhead

Posts: 982
From: Valley, Alabama, USA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 09-25-2002 10:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 69 Sportsroof   Click Here to Email 69 Sportsroof     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dont transbrakes have an optional rev limiter? Could this be activating and cutting out the spark signal? Obviously I'm guessing.....

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65_302
Gearhead

Posts: 157
From: Bixby, OK
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 09-25-2002 11:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_302   Click Here to Email 65_302     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have not heard of an optional rev limiter on the transbrake, but will check it out.

Thanks.

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65_289
Gearhead

Posts: 701
From:
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 09-25-2002 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_289   Click Here to Email 65_289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 69 Sportsroof:
Dont transbrakes have an optional rev limiter? Could this be activating and cutting out the spark signal? Obviously I'm guessing.....

The wiring on the transbrake is not hooked up right now. We had it wired w/ a quick disconnect so we could disconnect it on the street and not worry about bumping the transbrake!

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Mike_R
Gearhead

Posts: 142
From: Indianapolis, IN 46237
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 09-25-2002 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike_R   Click Here to Email Mike_R     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds to me like the coil might be going bad. If you have a spare one, I would try it on there. It's easy enough to find out.

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65_302
Gearhead

Posts: 157
From: Bixby, OK
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 09-25-2002 08:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_302   Click Here to Email 65_302     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We started thinking ignition this afternoon too, but more toward the Pertronix unit. Thinking maybe the Strip Annilator box has messed with the Pertronix unit. And I remember Alex saying he does not like the Pertronix above 6K. I guess a coil could fail, even if its only 2 yrs old. Any sure way to ck the spark out of the coil and the spark from the dist to the plugs, without taking it to the shop for a scope test?

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65_302
Gearhead

Posts: 157
From: Bixby, OK
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 09-27-2002 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_302   Click Here to Email 65_302     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ignition was correct, but at the end of the equation. Switched from the AR-93s back to Autolite 104 plugs. Problem solved.

Thanks for everyones help. I sure like the way so many people are willing to help with the learning, or re-learning process. As is usually the case, its the simple things that often fix the problem.

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