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Author Topic:   Overheating Cleveland
Greg Pettit
Gearhead

Posts: 126
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 08-15-2002 06:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greg Pettit   Click Here to Email Greg Pettit     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Posted this on another board as well, but am looking for some more opinions.

Still chasing a cooling problem on my '71 Torino with a 351C. Temps were 230+, and after swapping t-stat, hoses, flushing system twice, etc... I decided it might be the old 2 row radiator.

Installed the new 3 core radiator last night, and with a 160 degree thermostat on an 80 degree evening, the temp went up to 195!

This afternoon at 90 degrees outside, I saw 210!

First the temp stabilized at 160, right on the dot. After about 3 minutes of driving it started creeping up.

It did not cool off a bit at idle, either. Lots of water flow through the radiator, VERY hot air is being blown out by the 7 blade clutch fan with new clutch.

I believe there must be a blocked passageway in the block or a head that is causing a localized overheating condition. Anyone ever come across this before?

This engine always ran super cool till this summer. No changes to the engine or cooling system, until the overheating started.

Greg

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'71 Torino GT w/ 351C, soon to be 466/C6.

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Larry Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 540
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 08-15-2002 06:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry Jennings   Click Here to Email Larry Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are there any other signs of heat other than the temp gauge? Have you tried sticking a meat or candy thermometer in the radiator to see if the gauge is correct?

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A hotel is a place that keeps the manufacturers of 25-watt bulbs in business.
- Shelley Berman

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Slow65Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 113
From: Reading, PA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-15-2002 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Slow65Stang   Click Here to Email Slow65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
351C's are typical for overheating if the motor has been punched .030 over or more. Something to do with the water jacket design i think.

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Dusty Kiser
Gearhead

Posts: 184
From: Bethel,Oh USA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 08-15-2002 07:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dusty Kiser   Click Here to Email Dusty Kiser     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Greg, I believe you need to start with the basics. First run a compression check on the engine and inspect the plugs closely for evidence of antifreeze contamination. Could have a blown gasket or cracked block/head. Sometimes it will only show up when engine temp is up! If OK, think about the rest of the system. Do you have a lower hose sucking closed? Is the fan pulling air (not pushing as in backwards). Are you bleeding all the air out of the system prior to firing the engine. An air pocket under that horizontally mounted t-stat can keep it from opening. You say the coolant appears to be circulating well so it's unlikely, but I have seen pump impellers come off. I assume you have good shroud and the general state of tune of the engine is good. Double check your cap, and double check your gauge to make sure it's accurate. Let us know what you find out.

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Greg Pettit
Gearhead

Posts: 126
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 08-15-2002 07:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greg Pettit   Click Here to Email Greg Pettit     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, thanks for the replies.

Here's what I've done so far to try to fix this problem.

New 7 blade clutch fan, new clutch which replaced the stock 5 blade flex fan

New upper and lower hoses, no hoses are collapsing

Stock and good condition fan shroud

No electric fans

New 3 row radiator

New 13 lb cap

New 160 degree t-stat, restrictor is in place and block appeared clean inside

Drain and flush with Prestone stuff, flushed backwards and forwards

Water temp with thermometer is within 20 degrees of the mechanical gauge, remember the mech gauge is on the water outlet and the thermometer is in the cool side of the radiator -- haven't measured this yet with the new radiator, however

The car does indicate that it's hot, with preiginition and hard starting, I have retarded the timimg somewhat to eliminate this

Thermostat does open, full coolant flow takes about 5 minutes or so at idle.

Man, I'm stumped. I'm not quite ready to finish the 466, but if this continues I'm gonna have to do something drastic. I feel like all the easy stuff has already been done.

Hopefully someone can help!

Thanks,

Greg

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'71 Torino GT w/ 351C, soon to be 466/C6.

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 08-15-2002 08:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm no help. Even when my 70 had a mild 351C in it, it saw 210* on 90*+ days. And that was with a 160* thermostat, a 4 core radiator, and a hi-flow water pump. So long as it never got over that, I didn't worry about it.

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Greg Pettit
Gearhead

Posts: 126
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 08-15-2002 08:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greg Pettit   Click Here to Email Greg Pettit     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, Kid.

One reason I'm worried is that this engine ran super cool for 8 years, and now it's overheating. It's possible something has gone wrong and it's symptom is the overheating.

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fastbackRb
Gearhead

Posts: 100
From: Columbus,Ga.
Registered: May 2002

posted 08-15-2002 10:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fastbackRb   Click Here to Email fastbackRb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not to say you are wrog but every cleveland I have had had 16 lb. rad. cap. If you look in the rad when idleing and see bubbles you haxe blown head gasket which will cause your problem just like the rad. cap with not enough pressure on it. Good Luck and let us know what you find.

Rudy

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70 fastback cleveland 5.80'[email protected] (broke it)
69 cougar elimnator Boss 302
84 droptop 5.0
86 hatchback 289
92 explorer
97 f350 dullie power stroke

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[email protected]
Gearhead

Posts: 935
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 08-16-2002 10:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JCQuinn@work   Click Here to Email JCQuinn@work     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Clevelands are famous for cracking the block. If the car has started overheating when you made no changes and the thermostat is not sticking, it probably indicates an exhaust leak into the water jacket.

John

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Greg Pettit
Gearhead

Posts: 126
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 08-16-2002 10:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greg Pettit   Click Here to Email Greg Pettit     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yep, I had the #5 cylinder crack on my last Cleveland, but then I was getting oil in the water and water in the oil. Also lots of pressure in the radiator.

I haven't checked with a pressure tester, though.

There are no real indications of a crack, no bubbles, no oil in the coolant , no coolant loss.

I'll check it out anyway, sounds like as good an idea as any.

Thanks,

Greg

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John Holloway
Gearhead

Posts: 1014
From: Romeoville Illinois
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 08-16-2002 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for John Holloway   Click Here to Email John Holloway     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Greg, have you checked for a cracked head? I had a 351-c that cracked a head around the valve spring,look for antifreese droplets around the outside of the valve springs.

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Larry Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 540
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 08-16-2002 01:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry Jennings   Click Here to Email Larry Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has anything been done (like lowering the car) that could restrict air flow out of the engine bay?

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A hotel is a place that keeps the manufacturers of 25-watt bulbs in business.
- Shelley Berman

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DidgeyTrucker
Gearhead

Posts: 1631
From: Greenbrier, TN USA
Registered: Oct 99

posted 08-17-2002 10:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DidgeyTrucker   Click Here to Email DidgeyTrucker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm watching this 'cause I've got the same thing going on. I have a 1971 351C with 2V heads in my 1966 F-100. Three row radiator, 13 lb. cap and 180 thermostat. The motor was bored .030 about 15,000 miles ago. When I start driving the temp will go to and stay at 180 for few minutes them slowly creep up to about 195. In slow traffic it will hit 220. I'm wondering about the auto transmission heating up the water after a few minutes of driving. It's an FMX that I haven't touched except for changing the filter.

Tracy

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[email protected]
Gearhead

Posts: 935
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 08-17-2002 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JCQuinn@work   Click Here to Email JCQuinn@work     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cracks don't always move oil. Sometimes they just allow combustion gas to leak into the water jacket. Cracks around the valve seat act like that as well as cracks in the cylinder wall.

I would pull the heads and have them checked for cracks.

John

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Greg Pettit
Gearhead

Posts: 126
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 08-17-2002 10:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greg Pettit   Click Here to Email Greg Pettit     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for all the help, guys. Looks like I'm going to have to live with what I've got.

One thing is for sure. I have always hated this engine, and there's no way I'm going to bust one more knuckle on it.

Shoulda built a big block a long time ago.

From now on all efforts are going to the 460.

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Derrick LaRiviere
Journeyman

Posts: 11
From: Ontario,Canada
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 08-17-2002 10:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Derrick LaRiviere   Click Here to Email Derrick LaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had the exact same problem. Over the years the car would seem to run hotter until last year it would hit 220. Checked everything, i had a 4 core rad added an electric fan to help and it didn't do a thing. I then replaced the thermostat, remove the water pump to see if the impeller was slipping on the shaft, nothing wrong. Even when i took it on the highway it ran hotter, something wrong there. I removed the thermostat and back flushed the block, didn't see anything unusual. I then added water started it up and it wouldn't go over 160 with the stock fan. I turned the electric fan on and it went below, too cool for the engine. That was last summer and this year it seems to slowly creep back up there to 190 in heavy traffic. I think theres something in the block blocking the flow. I will pull the heads next year when i take the engine out to see the cause of it. Not sure if this is the problem you have , but it sure surprised me when mine was o.k. after doing that. Also check the lower rad hose when it is hot, mine was cool which made me think there was a flow problem, when you think of it i was having a blockage problem and the coolant was passing by the blockage not cooling the engine. I had lots of flow in the rad also. hope this helps
Derrick

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Gullatt's Mustangs
Journeyman

Posts: 84
From: No Alabama USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 08-19-2002 01:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gullatt's Mustangs     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Greg, First do a coolant system pressure test. Pull the water pump and check the impeller.The lower the thermostat, the more often it opens (install a 189-191) that way the radiator will have more time to cool the coolant. Does the engine have a 50/50 mix of coolant? 100% water and 100% coolant do not perform as well. Run a direct fan.If it is an auto trans, install an isolated trans cooler. Ambient temperature has been quire high this Summer. I hope all of this will fix the problem. Otherwise you may have a blocked cooling passage/s and the engine will need to come out. I will say again, the lower the t-stat you install(160) the less time the radiator has to do it's job. Greg Gullatt
quote:
Originally posted by Greg Pettit:
Posted this on another board as well, but am looking for some more opinions.

Still chasing a cooling problem on my '71 Torino with a 351C. Temps were 230+, and after swapping t-stat, hoses, flushing system twice, etc... I decided it might be the old 2 row radiator.

Installed the new 3 core radiator last night, and with a 160 degree thermostat on an 80 degree evening, the temp went up to 195!

This afternoon at 90 degrees outside, I saw 210!

First the temp stabilized at 160, right on the dot. After about 3 minutes of driving it started creeping up.

It did not cool off a bit at idle, either. Lots of water flow through the radiator, VERY hot air is being blown out by the 7 blade clutch fan with new clutch.

I believe there must be a blocked passageway in the block or a head that is causing a localized overheating condition. Anyone ever come across this before?

This engine always ran super cool till this summer. No changes to the engine or cooling system, until the overheating started.

Greg



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