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Author Topic:   intake recomendation/opinions
SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 861
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-06-2002 02:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As of right now I have only a few constants: I have Hooker Supercomp headers, An Eddelbrock 750 CFM carb. (I don't like holley carbs, no offence) I plan to buy AFR 185 heads. All on a roller 302.

What intake do you recomend for a very streetable wide powerband?

I'd just like to hear some opinions.

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1086
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 08-06-2002 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First off, the wide powerband is dependent on the cam profile and heads. The AFR 185 heads will have a low velocity, poor idle, and gas mileage on a 302. The only way to have a wide powerband, would be to use a smaller heads, cam, and dual plane intake that is designed to maintain velocity and vacuum through the entire rpm range.

Proven for 410HP @ 6000 rpms:
Compression - 10:1
Heads - AFR 165
Cam - 230/240 dur @ .550 lift 110 LSA
Intake- Weiand Stealth 8020 (port matched)
Exhaust- 3" pipes and mufflers, 2 1/2" mandrel bent tailpipes
Gear ratio - 3.70-4.11

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 08-06-2002 09:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With a Jimmy Carter (Edelbrock) peanut carb you really won't have to worry about it as you will have no power band.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1086
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 08-06-2002 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I didn't wanta be the one to say it!

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 08-06-2002 10:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, if ya plant peanuts, you'll get peanuts.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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Hemikiller
Gearhead

Posts: 270
From: Clinton, CT
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-06-2002 09:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemikiller   Click Here to Email Hemikiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex, just curious, but what is your beef with the Carter carb?????

I have a ton of Holleys, and 3 or 4 Carter/Edelbrocks. I generally use the Carters on my daily drivers, and have had very good luck with them, emissions, mileage and driveability are generally better than a Holley.

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smblk t-bolt
Journeyman

Posts: 66
From: port alberni BC Canada
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 08-07-2002 02:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for smblk t-bolt   Click Here to Email smblk t-bolt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hear the same thing from holley guys..I like carter's myself.Admittedlty, a holley is way more tune-able for a wide range of conditions so its definetly better for getting every last tenth out of your setup.. But being more tune-able also means its more likely to be out of tune on any given day.If you know what your doing(and your willing to do it)you can jet for this but most guys I know bolt em on and run them that way forever.All the carters I,ve ever set up,while not as fast as a well tuned holley tend to run better as daily drivers.Just my 1.5 cents worth(aint worth more than that!)

(I prefer carters, in case that didnt come across)

ron

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 08-07-2002 10:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No beef with Carter/Edelbrock at all. I sell them and even install them for people who have zero mechanical aptitude. They are very simple carbs and work great on street driven cars, trucks, busses, and tug boats. Carter/Edelbrock carbs do not have the tuneability or air flow capacity to allow a high performance engine to reach it's maximum power.
If you want to go FAST, they you want a Holley. If you just want to cruise or drive your car to a show where you can wax it in front of a crowd, then a Carter/Edelbrock is for you.
No brag just fact.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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Hemikiller
Gearhead

Posts: 270
From: Clinton, CT
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-07-2002 11:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemikiller   Click Here to Email Hemikiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That is the answer I was looking for. I agree, Carter/Edelbrock is as I put it, "Idiot-Proof". The Holley is for the more serious driver, and can definitely seperate the posers from the gearheads.....

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stoker
Gearhead

Posts: 121
From: folsom,cal,
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 08-08-2002 03:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for stoker   Click Here to Email stoker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hey bluestreek,i run AFR 185s and love my low end torqe and idle quality.gas mileage seems ok too,here is my combo.306 10t01 289 rods (pistons have + .011 deck height)full float.cam is solid flat 550 235 on110.hooker super comps with x pipe 2.5 mandrel bent all the way.edelbrock air gap port matched.distributer is locked out at 37 (msd start retard)3000 stall 3.25 rear.car idles in gear at 900 and pulls 11 inches vacumm.the holeshot and low end is awesome and pulls hard tell shift lite comes on at 6600 (whent with 340# on seat springs)maybe thats open pressure.also advanced cam three degrees.have not been to track yet,shootin for 12.5 ets on 3100# car.my old iron headed motor (351 dooe heads)302 cube same gear went 12.69

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 08-08-2002 10:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Stoker, what ever times you wind up turning with a Jimmy Carter carb, you can rest assured that it would go substantially quicker and faster with a Holley.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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mustangboy
Gearhead

Posts: 520
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 08-08-2002 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangboy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Everybody says how idiot proof the edelbrocks are but you wouldn't believe how many times I've heard guys whining about their cars running lean and pinging and how the metering rods won't cure it blah blah blah.I think you have to get the exact carb for your combo and if your wrong or you change something you can't tune the e-brock to compensate.Holleys forever!

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 5659
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-08-2002 11:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SundanceKid:
What intake do you recomend for a very streetable wide powerband?

I'd just like to hear some opinions.


Nobody answered your question.

Edelbrock Performer RPM!! Topped with a Holley. That how Vic's cars are set up

SteveW

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1086
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 08-08-2002 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by stoker:
hey bluestreek,i run AFR 185s and love my low end torqe and idle quality.gas mileage seems ok too,here is my combo.306 10t01 289 rods (pistons have + .011 deck height)full float.cam is solid flat 550 235 on110.hooker super comps with x pipe 2.5 mandrel bent all the way.edelbrock air gap port matched.distributer is locked out at 37 (msd start retard)3000 stall 3.25 rear.car idles in gear at 900 and pulls 11 inches vacumm. the holeshot and low end is awesome and pulls hard till shift lite comes on at 6600.

The 3000 stall and 10:1 comp. is a nice little "booster" for your 185 heads.
3.70-4.11 gears would have helped your 306 even better.

[This message has been edited by bluestreek (edited 08-08-2002).]

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Hemikiller
Gearhead

Posts: 270
From: Clinton, CT
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-08-2002 10:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemikiller   Click Here to Email Hemikiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Carters have jets too, so maybe they were afraid to pull the top and change jets.

Any carb can be made to run properly on any motor. It may not provide the MOST power, but it will run fine.

The carter metering rods function just like a Holley power valve. At "x" vacuum, the rods retract from the jets and allow more fuel through.

Blanket statements that "x" part is junk is a bit stupid. I can think of a few Holley carbs that I'd rather tie a rope and a bouy to than bolt onto my car.....

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SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 861
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-11-2002 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have ran Holley carbs on several cars.

What I have found in my personal experience is they tend to be a "little" faster in the quarter...a tenth or two, but that is all. The idle of a holleys I have used seemed to be better then most carbs. This is because they always run richer at idle then my other carbs do. I "Preffer" LOL a Quadrajet (I can hear it now!) LOL!
EVERY QuadraJet I have run, has ALWAYS been faster then a same sized and larger Holley. Both properly tuned I was allways a tenth or more faster with the QuadraJet.

No brag just fact!

However, Ford doesn't use spreadbore designed intakes, and an adapter is like two steps forward and three steps back.

I have two Eddy's one a 600 CFM, and one a 750 CFM. I have always found that I could use a larger Carter/Eddy carb on an engine then a Holley. What I mean is if a 600 CFM Holley is perfect for an engine I can use a 750 Eddy and have no driveability problems caused by the larger Eddy carb while going faster. Try the same thing with a Holley 750 and the engine won't run right no matter how much you tune it down. Sure, it will run up top just as well as the like sized Eddy, but the driveability and engine responce is shot!
I am not a big fan of Carter/Edelbrock, but when it comes to tuning, I have found I have just as many options as a Holley with the exception to vacume secondary adjustment (a Eddy requires you to grind, and potentialy ruin the secondary weights) But the nice thing about the Eddy carbs is all the adjustment can be made on the car without spilling gas all over! If you have ever caught your car on fire due to a holley leaking gas all over you can realy appreciate this feature!
I roadrace and have had nothing but trouble trying to tune the Holleys part throttle transition. The QuadraJet with a few modifications is as easy as turning a screw! the Carters require a spring and or a rod change but otherwise easy to do trackside. A Holley you have to tear the whole thing apart to change powervalves!

For dragracing where WOT is all that counts a Holley would do fine.

Well, back to the original question: What intake do you all recomend? Can I get away with a single plane intake? I have seen alot of data showing minimal loses in torque. But I don't buy into that much.
The obvious intake would be the RPM AirGap, But I wanted to know if you guys may be running something that is better that I should look into?

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Dusty Kiser
Gearhead

Posts: 122
From: Bethel,Oh USA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 08-11-2002 10:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dusty Kiser   Click Here to Email Dusty Kiser     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know what all the whining is about, a mechanic can get any carb to run if he wants to enough. I've run 3310 Holleys on 289's with no problems whatsoever, other than trying to keep rear tires on the car! I like the weiand stealth or performer air gap ( if it's a fair weather car).

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 08-11-2002 10:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No brag just fact is my line Kid.


NOBODY, and I do mean NOBODY else is allowed to use it!!!!!!!!

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 08-11-2002 10:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dusty, keyword = mechanic! LOL

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 1217
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 08-13-2002 12:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sundance,
Ford has used spread bore manifolds from the factory in the past. I don't know about now. the 1970 Mercury Cyclone Spoiler came with a spread bore intake and carb on a 429CJ motor.

------------------
Jerry Smith
69 Mustang Pro ET Drag
"Even a blind hog can find an acorn every now and then "

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RADRIDE
Gearhead

Posts: 173
From: Va.Beach, Va.
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 08-13-2002 08:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RADRIDE   Click Here to Email RADRIDE     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Once again Carter AFB gets a bad rap.I am just putting the AFR 185 on my 65 FB with a new air-gap manifold and was going with a new Holley carb.My engine builder who runs a Holley on his R-code replica race car told me the proof is on the track and my AFB runs with the best of them.Not to say if the new heads need more I will would not run a Holley.This is not a drag car it is set up for open track and auto-x.but does run 13.2 in 1/4. on stock heads.

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stoker
Gearhead

Posts: 121
From: folsom,cal,
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 08-13-2002 09:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for stoker   Click Here to Email stoker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hey blue strek,some day when i can afford it i will get an overdrive to be able to run short gears (do alot of highway running)and for now i just love my fully race preped jim galiotto (ATO) c-4.full roller bearing planetary.billet valveless reverse pattern body (you gotta feel how fast and hard it shifts to believe it)

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SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 861
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 08-14-2002 04:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Whooaa....Alex buddy calm down...LOL I only use YOUR saying when I speak to you! And I only do it to rile ya up!

jsracing, Some of Fords most powerfull engines came with a QuadraJet carb.

Considering all carbs are is a metered air leak anyway; physics realy dictate how much power a carburetor can produce.

[This message has been edited by SundanceKid (edited 08-14-2002).]

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