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  %$#&*&^$^% camshaft dowel pin hole!!!

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Author Topic:   %$#&*&^$^% camshaft dowel pin hole!!!
n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1367
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 07-18-2002 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
IT'S TOO DAMN BIG!!!!!

It's a brand new solid lifter Comp custom grind... and the cam pin just falls down into the hole. The pin measured around 0.309", I tried another that measured 0.310", and it fit the hole about perfect... but not a press fit. I tried a 5/16" drill bit (0.312) and it seemed to be a pretty good press fit.

I called Comp, and they said to ship the cam back to them, and about a week after they got it, they would get another one back to me.

I might see if I can find a 5/16" hardened dowel pin tomorrow...

Oh well... This is taking forever.

0.048" off the deck to get the pistons up flush, now this...

I hope your guys luck is better than mine has been. Oh yea, the Boss 302 crank also needed turned again. It's now 0.020" on the mains and 0.030" on the rods.

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 07-18-2002 07:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike, a suggestion or two.
1) Use the .310 pin with loctite.
2) Drill another dowel in the cam and timing gear so it is doubled pinned.
3) I have been through this before and trimmed the pin(pins) flush with the cam gear, then installed a larger washer to cover the pin. The bolt holds it all in anyway.

This would get you back together right away with no adverse effects.
Good luck.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1367
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 07-18-2002 08:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks, If I can't find a 5/16" dowel pin to try tomorrow, I might try something like that.

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 2991
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 07-18-2002 11:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by n2oMike:
0.048" off the deck to get the pistons up flush

Wow My Mexican block only needed .017 off of one side, and the other took .015 at the front to .019 at the rear to put my JE slugs at .005 down bore

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 2991
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 07-18-2002 11:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
2) Drill another dowel in the cam and timing gear so it is doubled pinned.


SOP?

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Just Strokin
Gearhead

Posts: 754
From: Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 07-19-2002 07:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Just Strokin   Click Here to Email Just Strokin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SOP for an engine that has high lift and high valve spring pressures. Specially the 385 engines and any other enigne for safety. The single pins have been known to sheer.

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Ken
Gearhead

Posts: 3605
From: Prospect, Ct. M&M Member No. 31 MCA Member 49299
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-19-2002 08:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken   Click Here to Email Ken     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by n2oMike:
I might see if I can find a 5/16" hardened dowel pin tomorrow...

I don't think your gonna readily find a hardened dowel pin....you may have to purchase a 5/16" drill blank if it has to be hardened.

------------------
Conciousness - that annoying time between naps.

Ken
1965 Springtime Yellow Coupe - 302GT40-4spd
Edlebrock RPM Air Gap - 670cfm Holley Street Avenger
and much, MUCH MORE !!!
My 1965 (aka RUMBLE BEE) Photo Page
1995 5.0 Laser Red - 5spd - Coupe

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jkilroy
Gearhead

Posts: 1636
From: Vicksburg, MS
Registered: Dec 99

posted 07-19-2002 10:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jkilroy   Click Here to Email jkilroy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike, Try McMaster Carr for your dowel pin. They list 8 catalog pages when you search on "dowel pin" on there web site. Here is a link...

http://www.mcmaster.com/

They ship same day, great company to do business with.

------------------
Jay Kilroy
68' Fastback GT 390
"No such thing as a cam thats too big"

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1367
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 07-19-2002 02:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've been surfing around the McMaster site, and believe I've found what I'm looking for... They have standard, 0.001" oversize, and 0.002" oversize pins.

What confuses me is, Why did the pins for the cam have the oddball 0.309" and 0.310" measurement? Am I wrong or something? Are the pins really supposed to be 5/16"... which is just a couple thousanths or so bigger? My 5/16" drill bit measured 0.312" The pins that shipped with the cam measured 0.309", while the pin I had (that came with a JUNK Motorsport timing chain) measured 0.310".

Anyway, I'm confused..... The pin is just under 5/16" as far as I can tell, and measures 1-3/8" long, so I'm going to order a standard, a 0.001" over, and a 0.002" over 5/16" pin just to be safe. BTW, 5/16" is actually 0.3125".

They don't have 1-3/8" (stock length), so I'll have to order 1-1/2" and cut it down. It might also need sanded down if the diameter is a tad too large.

What exactly is a good 'press fit' for something measureing 5/16"? How much larger should the pin be than the hole?

I'm getting tired of these hassles... Oh well.

Hope your all's luck is better than mine.

Thanks

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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Just Strokin
Gearhead

Posts: 754
From: Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 07-19-2002 02:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Just Strokin   Click Here to Email Just Strokin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good pressfit would be around 0.0005 - 0.00015 larger than hole.

Something, either the pin or the cam will have to give for the pin to be inserted on a pressfit, but you don't want either to break during insertion.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 07-20-2002 12:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not breaking anything during insertion is a good thing.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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mach72
Gearhead

Posts: 121
From: Bixby, Ok. USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-20-2002 01:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mach72   Click Here to Email mach72     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike, You might try putting the pin in the freezer for a while before you try to install it in the cam. It might give you just a little more clearance. Just a thought. Good luck, Tom

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1115
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 07-22-2002 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So what did you end up doing, N2oMike?

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1367
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 07-22-2002 11:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I ended up ordering some oversize pins.

I had to purchase in quanity. :roll: 20 standard 5/16" 1-3/4" hardened dowel pins for $7, 20 0.001" oversize 1-1/2" long pins for $8, and 5 0.002" oversize 1-1/2" pins for $6. Shipping will be around $5, and they should arrive tomorrow from McMaster.

Stock length is 1-3/8", but they didn't carry pins in that length, so I had to get longer ones. The 1-1/2" long standard 5/16" pins were only available in 50 packs, but the next longer ones came in packs of 20.

Anyone need any dowel pins? I'll have 44 left over.

These were all 130,000 psi pins hardened to 60 on the rockwell scale. Harder 'drill blanks' would have been too brittle. They also had plain steel and stainless, but were not even rated for shear use. The plain steel pins were even called 'shear' pins, and were to be used as a 'fuse' (like a shear pin in a lawnmower... in case it hits something solid)

I'll let you know what happens...

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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Just Strokin
Gearhead

Posts: 754
From: Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 07-23-2002 08:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Just Strokin   Click Here to Email Just Strokin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
do you take pay pal?...or personal checks?....what ya take for a couple of each?

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1367
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 07-24-2002 12:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I managed to tap the standard 5/16" alloy dowel pin into the hole with a brass hammer. It was a tight, but not 'overly' tight fit.

A Cloyes (motorsport) timing chain fit just right, but the machined billet steel timing chain I wanted to use needed a little clearancing to the pin hole.

All that's needed now, is to cut it to length... and the cam is "all better".

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 1115
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 07-26-2002 02:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike,

Did you choose to do the 'double pinning' work as Alex suggested or not?

Ryan

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1367
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 07-26-2002 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No. Maybe if I was running a big solid roller or something. This is just a moderate camshaft, so there 'shouldn't' be any trouble.

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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