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Author Topic:   msd problems
fastbackRb
Gearhead

Posts: 100
From: Columbus,Ga.
Registered: May 2002

posted 07-01-2002 11:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fastbackRb   Click Here to Email fastbackRb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anybody ever put a MSD on their car and had problems right out of the box? If so how about helping me with mine.I put a 6al on an svo turbo 4 banger, I cut the 2wires like it said bought the little jumper from the coil wires to hook up the box easier, routed the wires away from everything else, run the hot wire to the solnoid and grounded the ground wire to the engine.When I crank it up it now skips and sputters bad.Unplug the msd from the coil and hook up the old wires and it runs smooth again.It has new motorcraft plug wires cap and button.Also new bosch platnum plugs. Any body got any ideas or suggestions besides go to the holley anilator stuff?????????????

Rudy

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70 fastback cleveland 5.80'[email protected] (broke it)
69 cougar elimnator Boss 302
84 droptop 5.0
86 hatchback 289
92 explorer
97 f350 dullie power stroke

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 07-01-2002 11:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are you sure that you have the primary wires to the coil hooked up correctly?

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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fastbackRb
Gearhead

Posts: 100
From: Columbus,Ga.
Registered: May 2002

posted 07-01-2002 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fastbackRb   Click Here to Email fastbackRb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Red to red white to white orange to orange and black to black. The msd jumper plugs in to the coil wire and to the coil and then you cnnect the wires to corresponding color according to the instr. sheet.

Rudy

------------------
70 fastback cleveland 5.80'[email protected] (broke it)
69 cougar elimnator Boss 302
84 droptop 5.0
86 hatchback 289
92 explorer
97 f350 dullie power stroke

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 07-01-2002 11:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Then it can only be one other problem. You do not have a GOOD, and I do mean GOOD ground for the MSD 6 box.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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fastbackRb
Gearhead

Posts: 100
From: Columbus,Ga.
Registered: May 2002

posted 07-01-2002 11:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fastbackRb   Click Here to Email fastbackRb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hooked the battery charger to the solnoid and ground on the bolt where I have the msd and the computer grounded and did not help.Could it possibly be the bosch platnimum plugs?????

Rudy

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70 fastback cleveland 5.80'[email protected] (broke it)
69 cougar elimnator Boss 302
84 droptop 5.0
86 hatchback 289
92 explorer
97 f350 dullie power stroke

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 07-01-2002 11:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OOPS! Never, never have a battery charger hooked up while starting or running an MSD. You may have already fried the box.

A good ground is one that is to the engine block or frame. One where there is NO paint or grease. You can call Summits 800 24 hour tech line for more help tonight if you need it. I am going to bed now. Good luck.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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fastbackRb
Gearhead

Posts: 100
From: Columbus,Ga.
Registered: May 2002

posted 07-01-2002 11:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fastbackRb   Click Here to Email fastbackRb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
THANKS will wait till tommorro w I to am out of here for the night.

Rudy

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65_302
Gearhead

Posts: 265
From: Bixby, OK
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 07-02-2002 01:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_302   Click Here to Email 65_302     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When we hooked up the Annilator we did not regap the plugs and it sputtered. Reset the gap as suggested and it worked fine. Could it be the same for the MSD?

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Ron
Gearhead

Posts: 137
From: Newcastle, Wa.
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 07-02-2002 01:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
direct from MSD on testing your unit

White Wire Trigger:
If you are using the White wire (points or electronic
amplifier) of the MSD to trigger the ignition, follow these
steps.

1. Make sure the ignition switch is in the Off position.
2. Remove the coil wire from the distributor cap and
position the terminal so it is approximately 1/2" from a
good ground.
3. Disconnect the MSD White wire from the
distributor points or the ignition amplifier.
4. Turn the ignition to the On position. DO NOT
CRANK THE ENGINE.
5. Tap the White wire to ground several times. Each
time the wire is pulled away from ground a spark
should jump from the coil wire to ground. If spark is
present, the ignition is working properly.


If there is no spark:

A. Inspect all of the wiring.
B. Substitute another coil and test again. If there is
now spark, the coil is at fault.
C. If there is still no spark, check to make sure there
is 12 volts on the small Red wire from the MSD when
the key is in the On position. If 12 volts are not
present, find another 12 volt source and repeat the
test.
D. After inspecting the test procedures and
inspecting all of the wiring, there is still no spark, the
Ignition is at fault. See the Warranty and Service
Page for Information.

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Dad Vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 1064
From: Moscow, Iowa, USA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 07-02-2002 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dad Vishus   Click Here to Email Dad Vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
OOPS! Never, never have a battery charger hooked up while starting or running an MSD. You may have already fried the box.


We have started and run our race motor many many times with a battery charger hooked up and charging. Late rounds hot lapping, we routinely start the motor before unhooking the charger to keep the battery as charged up as possible.

Are we living on borrowed time?

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 07-02-2002 02:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
IN a word DV! yup!

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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Fordwiser
Gearhead

Posts: 442
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 07-02-2002 02:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fordwiser   Click Here to Email Fordwiser     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Off the subject, but don't get a charger, jumper cables, or any kind of surge anywhere near a mallory unilite (unicrap) I use to have a old mallory dualpoint I put a unilite conversion in, and used it for the trigger for an MSD box. When I was in the tech lanes at a big Ford event in Joliet a few years back, the tech guy checked my safty switch and blew the module out. When it happened again later in the year, that's when I switched to a MSD dist. to match the box. If anyones interested still got the mallory, even have a brand new module still in the package. Cheap!!!!
Roger

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fastbackRb
Gearhead

Posts: 100
From: Columbus,Ga.
Registered: May 2002

posted 07-02-2002 10:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fastbackRb   Click Here to Email fastbackRb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well we have tried all the above without geting rid of the missing and sputtering at idle. It did run good after idle (no missing or sputtering)but now it misses or starts breaking up once the turbo starts spooling up so we probaly need to go back and narrow the gap on the plugs again. We will try anything if some thinks it will help. Also how do we make the factory tach work with the msd? And don't say plug it up on the tach out put because I would not Know what to plug up. Boy I hate computer cars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rudy

------------------
70 fastback cleveland 5.80'[email protected] (broke it)
69 cougar elimnator Boss 302
84 droptop 5.0
86 hatchback 289
92 explorer
97 f350 dullie power stroke

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Scott (69Mach)
Gearhead

Posts: 796
From: Walnut Creek, CA USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-03-2002 12:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scott (69Mach)   Click Here to Email Scott (69Mach)     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did you upgrade your plug wires??? I had a similar problem running a box on stock wires. It ran great for a few days, but the wires couldn't handle the increased voltage and the car started sputtering and bonking. Swapped plug wires and it ran like a top.

Good Luck,

Scott

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goldenbob
Journeyman

Posts: 89
From: medford, or., United States
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 07-03-2002 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goldenbob     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Scott may be on to something for you. I recently installed a full msd system and my plug wires failed at the boots. Would spark around the plugs, mostly at idle and high rpm, couldn't see the "lightning storm" until I checked it by chance in the dark. Just got worse, as time went on, until I put new ends on the 8mm wires.

------------------
67 coupe (my first car in '78)
10:1 302, 4spd, 9" (lsd)posi
windsor jr heads*
*(tweaked by Lindvig mach.)
crane rollers
performer rpm (match ported)
holley 750 (#4160)
hooker super comp.
full msd
low grade 60 series street tires (oops, ran out of $$$)

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SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 1274
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 07-04-2002 04:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fordwiser, just how cheap and what engine is the distributor for? How many miles on distributor? E-mail me

Thanks

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2831
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 07-04-2002 09:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A friend of mine with a turbo Buick had trouble with sputtering... and it turned out to be his plug wires.

The absolute WORST plug wires out there are Accel Super Stocks (sold at Advance, etc). If you get Accel wires, make sure they are at least 'spiral cores' and preferably the 300+. Personally, I like MSD Super Conductors, but there are several out there that work just fine.

You'll also want to run narrower gaps with your turbo'd engine. I'd drop the plug gap down to around 0.032"-0.035". Be sure to try and keep the ground strap as parallel to the center electrode as possible. The tiny center electrode and exposed porcelin on platinum plugs are easily damaged when gapping. Be careful.

You might even try a different plug with a colder heat range. If you are using the standard (cheap) Bosch platinums... I've never had any luck with them. NGK is one of the best out there in my opinion.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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Fordwiser
Gearhead

Posts: 442
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 07-04-2002 10:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fordwiser   Click Here to Email Fordwiser     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sundance, it's for a 351C/429//460, no idea how many miles, but the shaft doesn't have any play in it! I think I paid $90 bucks for the new module. I will take that plus shipping for the dist and new module, also will include the blown module, maybe able to sweet talk a rep at a national event into replacing it,(did that once) don't know what company even owns Mallory anymore!

Roger

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 07-04-2002 10:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those yellow Accels Superstock wires are "economy" price leader items. I would only use them with a point ignition. Preferably on a chebbie.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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Jim63
Journeyman

Posts: 27
From:
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 07-04-2002 02:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jim63   Click Here to Email Jim63     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just put in a MSD 6 box --starts ok with stock wires but know it won't last --what brand and type should I get other than Accel--Would like to take to track this weekend and only have Advance, Pep-Boys and Autozone to check with--Thanks for any info.
Jim

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2831
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 07-04-2002 03:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As long as you stick with a decent SPIRAL CORE plug wire, you should be fine. Just don't subject your car to those carbon core Accel 'Super Stocks'. They are complete junk. Spiral Core, Spiral Core...

Boosted applications are the cars that closer gaps and premium plug wires are mandatory. If you want to hold out for the best wires, and nitrous and/or boost are part of your equation... just tighten the plug gaps up a little (with your stock wires) and have fun!

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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SundanceKid
Gearhead

Posts: 1274
From: UT
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 07-04-2002 06:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SundanceKid   Click Here to Email SundanceKid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Fordweiser, I have a small block so it wouldn't work for me. You can still salvage it by installing a pertronics Ignitor? No more popped optics. Just an idea if it is still usefull to you.

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fastbackRb
Gearhead

Posts: 100
From: Columbus,Ga.
Registered: May 2002

posted 07-04-2002 10:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fastbackRb   Click Here to Email fastbackRb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well guys here is an update.Brand new 8mm motorcraft plug wires,swapped to ngk plugs gapped at .035, new motorcraft cap and rotor. And the -itch still skipps and sputters at idle and in upper rpm. Has any one heard about the adapters to hook up the tach that msd sell? The guys on the svo forum said they have had to use them to get their tachs to work and when they did they said it helped the efi to work better and their cars ran smoother. Maybe it's worth the few bucks to find out. Ihave another 6al I will try tomorrow and let everyone know if it helps or not. Keep the suggestions coming I will try them all until I get it going right. THANKS

------------------
70 fastback cleveland 5.80'[email protected] (broke it)
69 cougar elimnator Boss 302
84 droptop 5.0
86 hatchback 289
92 explorer
97 f350 dullie power stroke

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fastford34
Gearhead

Posts: 1064
From: penna
Registered: May 2002

posted 07-05-2002 11:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fastford34   Click Here to Email fastford34     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
just a note for anyone using the unilite.install their POWER FILTER.prevents power surge from cooking the module. mine died after 10 months,called mallory & bit..ed. new module,free of charge,they recommend the filter.i installed one,still running 4 years now.
however,a friend is running about the same motor -trans combo i have but has the msd dist(we both have msd 6al)his seems to have better response and power range than i do.

[This message has been edited by fastford34 (edited 07-05-2002).]

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2831
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 07-05-2002 11:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You are running the tach off the tach output on the side of the MSD box, aren't you? You might even try disconnecting the tach to eliminate the possibility of it causing any problems. Do this by disconnecting the 'signal' wire.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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Mike_R
Gearhead

Posts: 178
From: Indianapolis, IN 46237
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 07-08-2002 01:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike_R   Click Here to Email Mike_R     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you haven't already done so, try removing the rev-limiter chip. Those chips can and will go bad and some were bad from the factory. Just a little tidbit to try if you haven't already.

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