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Author
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Topic: C302B Heads & potential
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DRAGSTANG351
Journeyman Posts: 71
From: FLORIDA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 06-20-2002 05:15 PM
 
Does anyone know what the flow potential is on these heads?flow potential for unported & fully ported How much would a set of nib bare C302B heads be worth? What would be the best intake to run with these heads in a drag application w/351c 9.2 deck? thanks
kelly
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 7251
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 06-20-2002 05:23 PM
I have no idea, but I do know I would really love to have a set. Either those or a set of the aluminum Blue Thunder heads.
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Mpcoluv
Gearhead Posts: 1421
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-20-2002 06:08 PM
The bare C302B heads need to be ported (professionally) before they are usable.
They were designed to be a "blank canvas" for engine builders. Having said that, they are supposed to be the most versatile head ever from SVO. The first generation Yates heads only offered better valvetrain stability than the C302 series once professionally prepared.
Prepare to send $$$ above and beyond the price of the heads. A used set of C302 heads are a much better bargain (providing they are still usable) than a "New in the Box" set.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 29200
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 06-20-2002 06:14 PM
Kuntz has and does a bunch of these. His biggest customer for them used to be Les Baer. Anyone remember him? 
Jim loves those heads (in the as cast configuration) and has made some phenominal power with them. He always has a set "under construction" in the porting room for someone. As stated, be prepared to pay for the technology and power if you want it.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl
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Daniel Jones
Gearhead Posts: 972
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 06-20-2002 07:38 PM
The C302's have small ports compared to the earlier A3's and B351's and
were essentially designed to be ported. The small ports allow more material
for a head porter to work with. The latest Motorsport heads take this to
the extreme. A friend's SC1's had tiny little ports that were basically
just there to locate the CNC machine. I'm not exaggerating when I say you
could get your thumb stuck in an unported SC1's exhaust port. I don't
have the numbers handy but they flowed extermely well when they returned
from Chapman Racing and the ports were considerably larger. It's hard to compare flow figures because there is a lot of variance
from bench to bench and operators can play games if they wish. That
said, a well ported set of C302B's with 2.15"/1.65" valves will pull
330/230 CFM on a conservative bench, at 28", without any tricks to
inflate the numbers. Unported, a C302 intake will be around 250 CFM.
As a point of comparison, out-of-the-box Dart Windsors with 2.02"/1.6"
valves will pull 210/150 CFM on the same bench. I've seen higher
numbers (360/255 CFM) for both C302's and A3's claimed by guys in the
Pantera club but I'm not sure who did the porting or how the bench was
set up. The nice thing about A3's is that they required little work
to flow the big numbers. Just a basic clean up, bowl blending, and a
good valve job. The early Yates did not flow any better (worse in many
cases) than C302's but were optimized for restrictor plates (tiny
combustion chambers for high static compression ratios). The latest
Yates raised port and Motorsport SC1 heads are capable of flow very large
numbers when professionally ported but the sheets I've seen suggest the
additional flow over the old A3/B351/C302 family is at very large lift
values. The Blue Thunder ports look very much like a cast version of
my buddy's Chapman ported SC1's. While Ford Motorsport no longer makes
the C302B, Brodix makes a replacement, the BF300 but it requires a
rockershaft system. You have to be careful when buying high port intakes as Ford sometimes
assigned the same part number (different years) to high port and Yates
intakes and 9.5" versions (with different part numbers) could be milled
to fit 9.2" deck blocks. The intakes that will fit a 9.2" deck Cleveland
with C302 heads include: 1. M-9424-A331 by Roush. Single plane air gap. A 351C only intake.
No waterneck and the rear intake end seal area is shaped for a 351C only.
All the other C302B intakes listed below have a rear seal area that is
shaped to fit either a Windsor/SVO or a Cleveland block (must be
trimmed to fit the Cleveland). Don't confuse the Roush A331 with the
A331 by Edelbrock which has larger A3 sized ports. 2. M-9424-B351 by Roush. Single plane air gap. No waterneck but the
rear seal area is shaped for both 351C and 9.2" deck SVO blocks which
have the Windsor style rear intake end seal. Otherwise, looks very much
like an A331. 3. M-9424-D351 by Edelbrock. Has Windsor style waterneck and dual rear
seal area. Looks different from the A331 and B351 with a thin carb
flange. 4. Edelbrock Victor AH-II. Has Windsor style waterneck and dual rear
seal area. Last I checked, it was still in production, though you may
have to wait to get one as they are made on an infrequent basis. There was also an M-9424-E351 intake but it was a restrictor plate
intake which I would not recommend. Dan Jones
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DRAGSTANG351
Journeyman Posts: 71
From: FLORIDA
Registered: Dec 2001
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posted 06-21-2002 02:43 AM
Would anyone know where i could find a nice intake to match these heads?I have the M-9424-E351 ford motorsport restrictor plate intake. Dan, do you think it's possible to make this intake work with these heads? the runners have so much material in them it would seems like you could port the runners anyway you would wanted them shaped. thanks guys
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Daniel Jones
Gearhead Posts: 972
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 06-21-2002 04:57 PM
Check the Detomaso mailing list archives from the past month or two.
One of the members switched to a 9.5" deck block and was selling off
three high port intakes for 9.2" deck blocks. I think it was Jason
Eaton but I could be wrong. Go to www.panteraplace.com and click on
"links and vendors". There should be a list archives link. You
could also do a google search on Jason Eaton and Pantera as he has a
Pantera web site. Also, Jay Cushman of Cushman Competition usually
has one for sale.You might be able to work over the E351 to make it work but it would
probably be easier to just buy an A331 or B351. Since you've already
got the intake, you might want to give it a test. Changing intakes on
a Cleveland is about as easy as it gets. Is the E351 really heavy? I
held one high port intake in my hands that had really thick walls. I
think it was either and E351 or an EE351. It felt nearly as heavy as
a cast iron intake. Dan Jones
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Daniel Jones
Gearhead Posts: 972
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99
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posted 06-21-2002 05:03 PM
Check the Detomaso mailing list archives from the past month or two.
One of the members switched to a 9.5" deck block and was selling off
three high port intakes for 9.2" deck blocks. I think it was Jason
Eaton but I could be wrong. Go to www.panteraplace.com and click on
"links and vendors". There should be a list archives link. You
could also do a google search on Jason Eaton and Pantera as he has a
Pantera web site. Also, Jay Cushman of Cushman Competition usually
has one for sale.You might be able to work over the E351 to make it work but it would
probably be easier to just buy an A331 or B351. Since you've already
got the intake, you might want to give it a test. Changing intakes on
a Cleveland is about as easy as it gets. Is the E351 really heavy? I
held one high port intake in my hands that had really thick walls. I
think it was either and E351 or an EE351. It felt nearly as heavy as
a cast iron intake. Dan Jones
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