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Author Topic:   motor angle
jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 2954
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 06-17-2002 12:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How bout some opinions here. I can use the input. When installing a motor in a new chassis, ( motor plates front and rear ) do you need to angle it towards the rear, or just let it sit level? Mine is going to sit pretty low in the chassis ( 10 to 11 inches gnd. to crank center line ) I've always angled them a little on previous installations but never really went by any set rule.

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Jerry Smith
69 Pro ET Mustang
514 cid Alcohol/ Enderle injection
5.60'[email protected] 119 MPH 1/8th
http://mustangsandmore.50megs.com/jsracingbbf.html

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 06-17-2002 12:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You want as straight a centerline to the pinion as you can get.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

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Just Strokin
Gearhead

Posts: 754
From: Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 06-17-2002 07:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Just Strokin   Click Here to Email Just Strokin     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You want the angle of the crank to be within a few degrees of the pinion angle. The pinion is normally set from 2-3* (4 link/ladder bars) to 4-6* (leaf springs/traction bars) down from the angle of the crank/transmission angle.

With the car at the correct ride height....mount the motor and transmission level (on the carb base of the intake) in the engine bay and then do some measuring of the front transmission yoke and the rear end yoke.

Just my .02/thoughts

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 2494
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 06-17-2002 01:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Who has a copy of Dave Morgan's, "Doorslammers - The Chassis Book"? It may say something about it in there...

If I had to guess: I'd think the engine should be 2 degrees down in back, the trans straight out, the driveshaft 2 degrees down in back, for a total of 4 degrees down in back; then pinion yoke angle should be 2 degrees down towards the front; for a total of 6 degrees off straightline. When the pinion rises under power, the pinion's 2 degrees down in front will go away and the U-joints will live happily ever after....but I'm just guessing here.

Ryan

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[email protected]
Gearhead

Posts: 935
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 06-17-2002 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JCQuinn@work   Click Here to Email JCQuinn@work     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I used to have a friend who built tube chassis cars. He always located the motor mounts with a straight steel bar that mounted in the main bearing holes and had a rear end pumpkin attached to the end. He installed the pumpkin in the rear end and had the center of the crank pointed directly at the center of the pinion gear. His cars seemed to work pretty well.

John Quinn

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Larry Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 540
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 06-17-2002 04:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry Jennings   Click Here to Email Larry Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For a race car you want the U joints to "run" at absolute zero, and finding where you need to have them set in the shop for that to happen on the pass is part of the game. For any other application a U joint should never run at zero for extended times.

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Whenever I feel blue I start breathing again!

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[email protected]
Gearhead

Posts: 935
From: Lakewood, CO, USA
Registered: Jun 2001

posted 06-17-2002 05:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JCQuinn@work   Click Here to Email JCQuinn@work     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Larry
What happens if the u-joint runs at zero deflection for an extended period?

John Quinn
confused again

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 06-17-2002 05:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You know, it's simple physics guys! The shortest path is a straight line.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
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Larry Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 540
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 06-17-2002 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry Jennings   Click Here to Email Larry Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If it runs straight the rollers don't roll and the joint fails.
As for why straight think of a breaker bar with the handle as the pinion and a bolt as the motor, more angle gives more advantage to the pinion end and less angle gives the advantage to the bolt end

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Whenever I feel blue I start breathing again!

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 06-17-2002 09:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have you ever seen an angled PTO? I haven't. Most I have seen are stationary and run for like a million hours or more. The only time they seem to fail is if they run out of lubrication. One to 1.5 degrees yes, but 3 to 4 no way.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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Larry Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 540
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 06-17-2002 10:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry Jennings   Click Here to Email Larry Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've been misconstrued ! Things like jet boats get a degree or degree ana half. It's just enough to make the crosses move, like the breaker bar analogy insinuates a severe angle causes severe power loss. Sorry if I caused you to spill your drink .

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Whenever I feel blue I start breathing again!

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jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 2954
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 06-17-2002 11:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I kinda had it figured for 1 - 1.5 degrees or less. Thanks guys
Jerry

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 06-17-2002 11:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's threads like this one that make me want to START drinking again!

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
Professional Manwhore
The Barry of BarrysGrrl

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jsracingbbf
Gearhead

Posts: 2954
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 06-17-2002 11:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jsracingbbf   Click Here to Email jsracingbbf     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dont you just love it Alex? Really though I am going to try to get it as straight as possible. Shouldn't be a problem, thanks for all your help!
Jerry

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fastbackRb
Gearhead

Posts: 100
From: Columbus,Ga.
Registered: May 2002

posted 06-17-2002 11:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fastbackRb   Click Here to Email fastbackRb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I talked to my chasis building buddy and he said make sure if you have 1-2 at the pinionhave the same at the tranny yoke. Also use the carb base on the intake to level the engine. Although he said on some super stocks he has done he lowered the front of the engine to help the traction.


Rudy

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70 fastback cleveland 5.80'[email protected] (broke it)
69 cougar elimnator Boss 302
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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 2494
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 06-18-2002 01:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rudy,
Aren't most intake carb flanges off a few degrees in relation to the front & rear block face flanges? What I mean is the carb will set level IF the engine is a few degrees down in the rear....I'm thinking if your friend set the front of the engine down in front, the trans yoke will then be up, & it'll cause too much extra angle deflection at both ends of the driveshaft... .... since it'll be angled up at the trans yoke and angled down at the pinion yoke...... or am I missing something here?

Ryan

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