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Author Topic:   302 Main Girdles
n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2419
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 05-29-2002 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
After running the last engine successfully for nine years in the mid to high 10's with stock parts and no main girdle, it's finally time to step it up a tad.

The next engine will consist of a Mexican block, Boss 302 crank and Boss 302 connecting rods. The block is going to be the weakest link, so I'd like to do what I can for it.

I plan on using Hard Block to do a partial fill up to the water pump holes... and add a main girdle.

After shopping around for main girdles, I've noticed that some come with generic bolts or studs, while a few come with ARP hardware. I definitely want the ARP studs.

The $300 D.S.S. girdle is aluminum, and comes with ARP hardware... but seems a bit pricey. Have any of you used the DSS unit? What did you think about it?

How about steel girdles? Any decent prices on any of those that come with ARP studs? Have any of you purchased a 'generic' girdle and extra long ARP studs seperately to work with it? Did it work well? Was it cost effective?

I don't know just how much a girdle will help, but I guess it can't hurt anything...

Any other comments or experiences are also welcome.

Thanks!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 5761
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 05-29-2002 01:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the main girdle may hurt windage and oil pan fit?

I'd think you'd be better off finding a used SVO block, maybe check with Roush and other teams that sell their old parts.

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2419
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 05-29-2002 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, this longblock is a BUDGET item.

It's being assembled from stuff I've had laying around the garage for a while.

I've already got the Mexican block, two sets of Boss 302 rods, (one set bored out and bronze bushed on the small end, the other stock) one hard chromed Boss 302 crank, and one that has not been chromed, but cross drilled. I've also got a set of Twisted Wedge heads and matching Probe 0.200" dome pistons that have been around a while. Which parts would you all use?

These parts, along with the carb, intake, rockers, oil pump, pan, etc. off the old engine... and a new cam, will be what the new engine will consist of. The old valve springs/titanium retainers were fairly fresh, and a bit stiffer then they needed to be, so they will get re-used as well. It's not going to be super radical, just a replacement for the old, worn out 302 that was in it. As long as it runs a -little- bit better than the old one, I'll be happy.

It will get a solid lifter cam from the 'tight lash' series of lobes from Comp. I'm looking at a intake lobe measuring 242 @ 0.050, and am torn between a 250 and a 254 for the exhaust. It's a 306, and will be using a 200hp shot of the bottle. Shift point will be around 7200 rpm.

I've got a standard bore Boss 302 block that had a ventilated cylinder wall (1/8" wide crack that does NOT extend all the way up to the deck, but was around 3-4" long) that has had a thick wall sleeve installed, but it will probably get saved for another project. I want to see how the 'short filled' Mexican block behaves on the street as an experiment. Hopefully the oil and water temperatures won't run too hot.

That's what I've got to work with...

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 968
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 05-30-2002 12:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike,

I have a DSS main girdle on my 383W. I likke it very well, some people say they girdles are not doing anything, but my engine is still alive after hundreds of passes and 5 yrs. I'm convinced they work. Buddy of mine broke a crank on a 427W. The girdle was the only thing that kept the block together.

About the only problem I had was that it hit the oil pan (8qt Milodon or stock) just in below the #5 main cap. I think it would be like this on any front sump pan. Rear sump would clear fine. I had to take a little off the girdle and also cut the stud off even with the nut. You can see how the back edge of the girdle is rounded off in this pic: Just did it with a sanding roll.

Later,

David Cole

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 2060
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 05-30-2002 12:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
n2oMike,
Food for thought: Although not a 302, I bought a steel Blue Thunder girdle for my 460+ which came with the longer ARP studs. BT may make one for the Windsor.

They noted that there would be some "touching" of the oil pump to the girdle, and recommended not to do ANY grinding on the girdle but rather grind a little off the oil pump casting - which I did.

I looked at the aluminum girdles, but choose to go with the steel.... still seemed like the better way to go to me.

Just my 2 cents,,,, Ryan

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2419
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 05-30-2002 02:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Update...

I was looking at a 3/8" thick flame cut cold rolled steel unit from Coast High Performance that came with ARP studs for $179. www.coasthigh.com

I also looked at one offered by Ford Performance Solutions that is 0.390" thick laser cut CNC machined chromoly steel. They also have a cool aluminum windage tray that fastens to it. On the website, the girdle is listed at $269, and the windage tray is $80. www.f-p-s.com

After calling FPS, they immedietly came down to $230 for the girdle, and $70 for the tray... It didn't take them long after that to go $295 for both, but they showed a little resistance at $290, but accepted the offer. Total with shipping from California to West Virginia came to $310.66. I tried to get them to ship it for $300, but they wouldn't.

I spent a little more than I planned, but that often happens when shopping for engine parts....

I'm still unsure if I should should have gone with the $179 Coast Street Fighter... Oh well, I know it's good stuff.

Thanks!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

[This message has been edited by n2oMike (edited 05-30-2002).]

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 4377
From: Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-30-2002 09:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Score!

F-P-S is less than 10 miles from my shop, and I had no idea! Hmmmmm, I could save on the shipping...

Hey Mike, I'd like your opinion on wether or not I need one. It's in the 'budget', but it's also three bills that could go a long way somewhere else. n/a 333 under construction (.040 over, 3.250 stroke), Scat cast crank & forged rods, JE forged pistons, Comp 270S, TFS heads, no power adders, rotating assembly by Kuntz & Company... mostly street, maybe an occasional trip to the track once I get it all dialed in. What do you think?

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2419
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 05-30-2002 09:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wouldn't think it would be required unless you expect to hit it with a significant dose of nitrous. My last engine lived through a LOT of nitroused abuse, and never had a main support. I'm still not convinced they are any more than a marketing gimmick. You don't see many Chevy engines running around with them... DSS is who started marketing the things on their 'bullet' Ford shortblocks. I'm not convinced of their validity, but, I guess they can't hurt. The only reason I'm going to one, is that I was at the design limit of the block with the last engine, and this engine will be stepped up a bit. It will also get a partial block fill.

I'd probably spend the money elsewhere.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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