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Author Topic:   Nitromethane engines
V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 1103
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-26-2002 11:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I want to hear it from the experts, the guys/grrls who know facts. I've spent time at the track, but only as a spectator . What makes a nitro motor different from alky motors and gas motors (besides the sinus-frying fumes)?

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John Holloway
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Posts: 549
From: Romeoville Illinois
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 05-27-2002 12:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for John Holloway   Click Here to Email John Holloway     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm no Expert,But Nitromethane burns faster than anyother Fuel (that I know of)It takes more nitro to down the track than the Alky cars and Alky cars run cooler than nitro cars.A few Years ago Sid Waterman did a demo of how much fuel goes through the Nitro Motors,He showed at a Idle the amount of Fuel would equal a person turning on their bathroom Shower,(the amount of water that would come out when the water was turned all the way on) At full throttle the amount of fuel would equal 4times the amount of water that would come out of your bathroom shower.And Nitro is harder on parts.I hope this sheds a little light on your question.

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Alex
Gearhead

Posts: 148
From: Perth, WA, Australia
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-27-2002 12:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Alex   Click Here to Email Alex     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting question!

I've always wondered why nitro doesn't get used in street or street/strip cars etc. Why use nitrous oxide instead, with all the hassle of pressurised bottles, solenoids etc. Why not just spray a little nitromethane under the carb, or add it to the fuel & jet rich? Model aircraft engines use a nitro mixture, and I've seen it in the ingredients list in some "octane boosters".

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V8 Thumper
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Posts: 1103
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-27-2002 12:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by John Holloway:
At full throttle the amount of fuel would equal 4times the amount of water that would come out of your bathroom shower.

I've read that a t/f car consumes 12 gallons of nitro to light, burnout, stage, and run

quote:

And Nitro is harder on parts.

No kidding?

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 1103
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-27-2002 12:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex:

I've always wondered why nitro doesn't get used in street or street/strip cars etc.

$30-some per gallon may have something to do with it

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TomP
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Posts: 3815
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 05-27-2002 03:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the price and the volume required to make any power. You would need to spray it with pretty large jets to do much, it is harder to burn, thats one reason the engine can't be started on Nitro. Another reason it won't start on nitro is the fact it ignites under compression, while cranking this is not a good thing... my ears are still ringing from that nitro Harley exploding a head off 4 ft from me a couple weeks ago.

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bfxcomet
Gearhead

Posts: 249
From: Port Alberni, B.C. , Canada
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 05-27-2002 05:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bfxcomet   Click Here to Email bfxcomet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I read some years back an article on nitromethane by Hot Rod mag and they said that nitro and gas will not mix so if trying to do so you would end up get a shot of pure nitro .Bad for any engine with enough compression to run pump gas.Alky motors run lots of compression compared to nitro motors.
In the same article they talked about a fuel additive that a few Pro Sockers got caught using can't remeber for sure but I think the name had propane in it.
Dave and me bought a bottle of nitro from the drug store when we teenagers but we were never brave enough to use it.
Roger

------------------

65 comet project
84 T-bird
Made in CANADA built for speed
#1145

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Butch Jennings
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Posts: 444
From: California
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 05-27-2002 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Butch Jennings   Click Here to Email Butch Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bfxcomet:

In the same article they talked about a fuel additive that a few Pro Sockers got caught using can't remeber for sure but I think the name had propane in it.



That would be Propylene Oxide.

------------------
Butch
460 powered 1967 Comet Cyclone
10.271 @ 130.231
Butcher's Home Page
"Friends don't let friends drive Chevys"

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 2361
From: not where I want to be
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 05-27-2002 05:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You want to see some cool stuff, go here

http://www.klotzlube.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=KS&Category_Code=AUTO_ADDITIVES


I think the reason the nitro cars run less compression is just because they are supercharged. With that blower spinnning on top, they have lots of compression. So it all equals out in the end. Actually, the optimum compression for alcohol according to Ron's is 13.85-1. The blower motors definatley have more than that by time it gets done forcing air into the cylinder.

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bfxcomet
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Posts: 249
From: Port Alberni, B.C. , Canada
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 05-27-2002 05:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bfxcomet   Click Here to Email bfxcomet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Butch, it was long ago that I read the article and I couldn't remeber the name.
Roger

------------------

65 comet project
84 T-bird
Made in CANADA built for speed
#1145

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Dusty Kiser
Journeyman

Posts: 71
From: Bethel,Oh USA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 05-27-2002 07:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dusty Kiser   Click Here to Email Dusty Kiser     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nitromethane is actually a slow burning fuel. The reason the fuel cars can burn so much AND the reason it makes so much horsepower is that wonderful oxygen molecule that makes everything happen in a combustion process. Nitro is very unstable and risky to store and transport. We used to buy 55gallons from Commercial Solvents and it would be delivered one barrel at a time in the middle of a box truck with straps running to all four corners to support it. The driver would drop ground straps before proceeding with off-loading. The current top fuel cars can consume as much as 17 to twenty gallons of fuel in one pass, from burn out to completion. An engine will start just fine on nitro, the fuel cars fuel systems are purged between rounds to reduce risk of accidents and to make sure the percentages of the fuel mix are exact. NHRA now has a 90% rule which makes it even more imperative to make sure there can be no dilution of mixture. The engines are test fired in pits and primed on starting line with alky for safety and cost reasons. The only way those engines can consume so much fuel is the working pressures generated by the combination of static compression ratio, huge blowers turning 130 to 160% of crankshaft speed delivering tons of air at 60 or more psi, twin spark plugs per cylinder fired by 44amp magnetos, AND the high oxygen content of the fuel. The sheer volume and slow burn rate of the fuel is amply demonstrated by the monster flames from the headers. The reason the top fuel cars are so errattic and seldom present good side by side racing is the extremes to which tuners have gone to in an effort to extract the last bit of speed. It's nearly impossible to keep all eight cylinders lit consistantly and even harder to put all that power to the track. We won't talk about what it costs to do it right!

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Ron
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Posts: 129
From: Newcastle, Wa.
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 05-28-2002 09:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OH GOD, you guys are making too much out of this, you are acting like its TNT or nitroglycerine or something like that!
You and me used to play with nitromethane as children all the time... don't you remember those remote control cars and planes? YEP they all ran on nitromethane, mostly the cars though.
Sure the properties are different but its main property is it carries a hell of a lot more oxygen.

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Greg Pettit
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Posts: 24
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 05-28-2002 10:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greg Pettit   Click Here to Email Greg Pettit     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Model aircraft fuel is at MOST 40-50% nitro, and in almost all but the most hardcore engines the fuel used is 25% or less. The rest is mostly methanol and a little oil for lube.

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Larry Jennings
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Posts: 426
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 05-28-2002 09:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry Jennings   Click Here to Email Larry Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While it is true many people reacted to the name "nitro" as the bump it and blow up liquid, nitromethane is not that volitile. At a national event there has to be about 3200 gallons at the ready and it all comes there in one truck that also has a bunch of Pro/Stock blackie carbon along for the ride. If you hung around the early fuel meets you would have seen more than one of the old masters "bobbing" his fuel with a lit cigar hanging in his mouth

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Whenever I feel blue I start breathing again!

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 1103
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 05-28-2002 11:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dusty Kiser:
...delivering tons of air at 60 or more psi...

OMG

Thanks Dusty. Wow, great info

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Dusty Kiser
Journeyman

Posts: 71
From: Bethel,Oh USA
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 06-02-2002 10:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dusty Kiser   Click Here to Email Dusty Kiser     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Larry Jennings:
While it is true many people reacted to the name "nitro" as the bump it and blow up liquid, nitromethane is not that volitile. At a national event there has to be about 3200 gallons at the ready and it all comes there in one truck that also has a bunch of Pro/Stock blackie carbon along for the ride. If you hung around the early fuel meets you would have seen more than one of the old masters "bobbing" his fuel with a lit cigar hanging in his mouth



You're right , one truck does carry a bunch of nitro and he isn't allowed through tunnels or on some bridges. Rumor has it Timothy Mcvey bought a couple of barrels from truck to juice up his bomb! As for cats smoking around an open container, well we all know there's a fool born every second.

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jkilroy
Gearhead

Posts: 1431
From: Vicksburg, MS
Registered: Dec 99

posted 06-02-2002 11:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jkilroy   Click Here to Email jkilroy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is a link to the material safty data sheet for the stuff...

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/n5740.htm

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Jay Kilroy
68' Fastback GT 390
"No such thing as a cam thats too big"

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Larry Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 426
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 06-02-2002 11:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry Jennings   Click Here to Email Larry Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Dusty! Terrible Ted Gottelli was the most known for mixin "color" with a cigar goin back around 1962 and he just died a couple of years ago at the age of 90 something. A good tuner knows when it'll go off .

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Whenever I feel blue I start breathing again!

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