Author
|
Topic: Aftermarket cam w/ stock tc and more...
|
I65Stang Moderator Posts: 5240 From: Antelope, CA Registered: Jun 99
|
posted 04-16-2002 12:16 AM
Ok, as some of you know I have to build a new engine for my 5.0 since the block is broken . The plan is to put the rotating assembly into a brand new Ford block using new bearings, rings and gaskets as long as everything checks out ok with the rods and crank (ie no real wear). The intake, heads, injectors, etc will be staying stock for now due to limited funds and wanting to get the 5.0 back up and running ASAP. While I am at it I was thinking of throwing an E303 cam (emissions) into her since the engine is apart anyhow. A few people have told me that the E303 with the stock torque convertor and heads/intakes will make the 5.0 become a dog especially down low. Is this true? Should I just stick with the stock cam for now? I know that Crane Cams makes emission legal cams with less duration than the 220 the E has but would they be worth it? An a-trim is planned in the future (along with 4.10s) but still utilizing the stock heads and intake until fully optimizing with aftermarket heads/intake later. So the question is, would it be worthwhile to replace the cam while I am building it and if so, which one? And no, I tc is not in the budget right now plus I would hate to buy one right now when this is the very bottom of my plans. As for my other questions, which brand bearings? I have heard good things of both Clevite and FedMog. Which rings? Total seal to maximize engine performance? How about oil pump? Thanks all, I am sure I will have more questions . I'm trying to get everything figured out so I can order at one time from Summit (block is coming from Ohio warehouse ). ------------------ Tim M&M Member #35 1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys 1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction 1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy http://all.at/mustang https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html
IP: Logged |
steve'66 Gearhead Posts: 3890 From: Sonoma,CA,USA Registered: Mar 2000
|
posted 04-16-2002 12:37 AM
Don't run gapless rings with n2o in the plans, Run std rings with wider than normal gap. You don't want them to butt under the pressure. SteveW
IP: Logged |
I65Stang Moderator Posts: 5240 From: Antelope, CA Registered: Jun 99
|
posted 04-16-2002 01:49 AM
Thats freaky Steve! Lol, I was just thinking about using nitrous since the engine is gonna be redone but in my post I was talking about a supercharger . Are you psychic or do you just know how I think? With having to buy the block and do all of that, it puts the a-trim out of my budget for now (the original plan before the block broke) so nitrous would be the next step . Uh oh The more I think about the cam the less sense it makes. I think that I should just stick with the stock cam for now and use the cam money towards the nitrous . Another question, can you have too much of a fuel pump with the EFI (has a return line and all)? I can get a Walbro 255 for the same price as a 190 and with nitrous or a sc in the future I think I should just get the 255 as long as it wont have adverse effects . Yeah, I'm gonna replace the fuel pump I think, its 160K miles old and the '88 is used for long trips. ------------------ Tim M&M Member #35 1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys 1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction 1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy http://all.at/mustang https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html
IP: Logged |
I65Stang Moderator Posts: 5240 From: Antelope, CA Registered: Jun 99
|
posted 04-16-2002 03:06 PM
Anyone on the rest of my questions? I'm gonna order the block tonight.
IP: Logged |
steve'66 Gearhead Posts: 3890 From: Sonoma,CA,USA Registered: Mar 2000
|
posted 04-16-2002 03:37 PM
Just get the ring & bearing kit from Summit. But I'd waid 'til you get the old motor torn down to see if it needs any machine work first. Go ahead and order your block though.SteveW
IP: Logged |
I65Stang Moderator Posts: 5240 From: Antelope, CA Registered: Jun 99
|
posted 04-16-2002 03:43 PM
Yeah, I planned on just ordering the block today since it will take a while to get here truck freight from Ohio . Still have to rent a cherry picker and take the old engine out. I can leave the tranny in and just unbolt the bellhousing from the block right (never tried it this way but I dont see why I wouldnt work with the tranny mounts still in place)?------------------ Tim M&M Member #35 1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys 1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction 1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy http://all.at/mustang https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html
IP: Logged |
steve'66 Gearhead Posts: 3890 From: Sonoma,CA,USA Registered: Mar 2000
|
posted 04-16-2002 04:18 PM
Yeah,That'll work fine Tim, SteveW
IP: Logged |
I65Stang Moderator Posts: 5240 From: Antelope, CA Registered: Jun 99
|
posted 04-16-2002 07:43 PM
I hate Summit, being a pita about price matching the block. Guy was nice and went to check, came back and said "sorry, they said I cant do it since they are Summit engine blocks". BS flag went sky high and the guy admitted he didnt understand it either. I figure I'll call back later tonight and try again .------------------ Tim M&M Member #35 1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys 1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction 1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html <font size=1> Men are liable to err. But when an error is made, that man is no longer unwise or unblessed who heals the evil into which he has fallen and does not remain stubborn. Self- will, we know, invites the charge of foolishness."- Sophocles</font size>
IP: Logged |
n2oMike Gearhead Posts: 802 From: Spencer, WV Registered: Jan 2001
|
posted 04-16-2002 07:54 PM
You fuel injected guys should stick with 112-114 degree lobe seperation angles. 112 n/a 114 blower/nitrous.Fuel injection doesn't work well with much overlap. I guess the O2 sensors get confused. I don't know why so many of the Motorsport cams have 110 degree lobe seperations. I know a couple of people (with mass air) that had 'hunting' idles and occasional stalling after installing E303 cams. Good Luck! ------------------ Mike Burch 66 mustang real street 302 4-speed 289 heads 10.63 @ 129.3 http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367 http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220
IP: Logged |
I65Stang Moderator Posts: 5240 From: Antelope, CA Registered: Jun 99
|
posted 04-17-2002 02:20 PM
Ordered the block from Summit (Central Coast has upped their price $50 due to running out and needing them to build there engines). Summit says it will take 10 days to get here! I should have asked first, I may cancel my order and pay a lil more to get it from Central.------------------ Tim M&M Member #35 1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys 1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction 1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html <font size=1> Men are liable to err. But when an error is made, that man is no longer unwise or unblessed who heals the evil into which he has fallen and does not remain stubborn. Self- will, we know, invites the charge of foolishness."- Sophocles</font size>
IP: Logged |
Larry Jennings Gearhead Posts: 289 From: Redwood City, Ca. USA Registered: Apr 2000
|
posted 04-17-2002 04:34 PM
Smile when you roar past the cost of a ready built OEM type crate motor Tim .------------------ If at first you don't suceed, sky diving is not the sport for you.
IP: Logged |
steve'66 Gearhead Posts: 3890 From: Sonoma,CA,USA Registered: Mar 2000
|
posted 04-17-2002 04:57 PM
Larry,Now you're gonna get him thinking again and it'll never happen. Just think how much he'll learn from doing it himself. SteveW
IP: Logged |
I65Stang Moderator Posts: 5240 From: Antelope, CA Registered: Jun 99
|
posted 04-17-2002 05:25 PM
Larry.... Lol, actually I added up the cost and I could not find a short block for cheaper than the cost of a block, bearings and rings . The ones out there are using hypercraptic pistons too. Since I plan on a 150 shot of the bottle they wouldnt like that . This way I also know the clearances and everything else is good cuz I built it myself (putting my ASE certs to use ). ------------------ Tim M&M Member #35 1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys 1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction 1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html Men are liable to err. But when an error is made, that man is no longer unwise or unblessed who heals the evil into which he has fallen and does not remain stubborn. Self- will, we know, invites the charge of foolishness."- Sophocles [This message has been edited by I65Stang (edited 04-17-2002).]
IP: Logged |
TomP Gearhead Posts: 3669 From: Delta BC Canada Registered: Dec 99
|
posted 04-17-2002 10:36 PM
TimThe phase "Nickle and dime you to death" mean anything? Theres always something to up the costs. I check locally on prices for the rings ,bearings and gaskets, Summit isn't cheap on that stuff. It's also always nice to be able to see what your getting in person.... so when you notice the "-.010" on the box you can tell them "that was supposed to be standard size" and replacements are footsteps away.
IP: Logged |
Larry Jennings Gearhead Posts: 289 From: Redwood City, Ca. USA Registered: Apr 2000
|
posted 04-17-2002 11:02 PM
I still say horsepower and topless cars don't go together well. By the time you get it stiff enough to work well there'll be a bunch of tubing overhead . ------------------ Being 10 is easy! Acting 10 takes years of practice.
IP: Logged |
I65Stang Moderator Posts: 5240 From: Antelope, CA Registered: Jun 99
|
posted 04-17-2002 11:16 PM
Tom, I plan on getting the bearings locally.Larry, this is mainly a street car with occasional strip duty but just for fun (not worried about points or anything) . But you are right, that lack of a roof is the reason I am not building a bigger and better engine for it but the nitrous will cure my occasional want of more power when I get around to buying the kit . ------------------ Tim M&M Member #35 1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys 1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction 1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html [This message has been edited by I65Stang (edited 04-17-2002).]
IP: Logged |
clevelandstyle Gearhead Posts: 202 From: Connersville, IN Registered: Jul 2001
|
posted 04-17-2002 11:29 PM
quote: Originally posted by Larry Jennings: I still say horsepower and topless cars don't go together well. By the time you get it stiff enough to work well there'll be a bunch of tubing overhead .
I agree 100%------------------ Ben Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V Robbin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 351C 4V
IP: Logged |
Larry Jennings Gearhead Posts: 289 From: Redwood City, Ca. USA Registered: Apr 2000
|
posted 04-18-2002 11:35 PM
Timmy! I found just what you need for your 65! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1821131811&r=0&t=0 just drop this baby in the coupe and keep the vert for milage LOL ------------------ Being 10 is easy! Acting 10 takes years of practice.
IP: Logged |
I65Stang Moderator Posts: 5240 From: Antelope, CA Registered: Jun 99
|
posted 04-21-2002 09:05 PM
You gonna buy it for me Larry??? Lol, I decided to wait for Scummit to deliver the block since I dont have time to do anything on it really anyhow. My dad did tell me today I can have garage space for the cherry picker so I think I'll probably buy one (lol, he told me we can store it where my mom wont know ). ------------------ Tim M&M Member #35 1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys 1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction 1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html
IP: Logged |
steve'66 Gearhead Posts: 3890 From: Sonoma,CA,USA Registered: Mar 2000
|
posted 04-21-2002 10:46 PM
Tim,The cherry picker can pay for itself in no time. When your friends want to borrow it just tell them it's 40/day and leave your driver's license as a deposit. LOL I loaned mine out to my son's freinds and never got it back for months, because one kid loaned it to another, who loaned it to another, who loaned it to another, well anyway you get the idea! SteveW
IP: Logged |
I65Stang Moderator Posts: 5240 From: Antelope, CA Registered: Jun 99
|
posted 04-24-2002 05:11 PM
Block is going to be delivered tomorrow .
IP: Logged |