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Author Topic:   Aftermarket cam w/ stock tc and more...
I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5240
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-16-2002 12:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok, as some of you know I have to build a new engine for my 5.0 since the block is broken . The plan is to put the rotating assembly into a brand new Ford block using new bearings, rings and gaskets as long as everything checks out ok with the rods and crank (ie no real wear). The intake, heads, injectors, etc will be staying stock for now due to limited funds and wanting to get the 5.0 back up and running ASAP.

While I am at it I was thinking of throwing an E303 cam (emissions) into her since the engine is apart anyhow. A few people have told me that the E303 with the stock torque convertor and heads/intakes will make the 5.0 become a dog especially down low. Is this true? Should I just stick with the stock cam for now? I know that Crane Cams makes emission legal cams with less duration than the 220 the E has but would they be worth it? An a-trim is planned in the future (along with 4.10s) but still utilizing the stock heads and intake until fully optimizing with aftermarket heads/intake later. So the question is, would it be worthwhile to replace the cam while I am building it and if so, which one? And no, I tc is not in the budget right now plus I would hate to buy one right now when this is the very bottom of my plans.

As for my other questions, which brand bearings? I have heard good things of both Clevite and FedMog. Which rings? Total seal to maximize engine performance? How about oil pump?

Thanks all, I am sure I will have more questions . I'm trying to get everything figured out so I can order at one time from Summit (block is coming from Ohio warehouse ).

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 3890
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-16-2002 12:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't run gapless rings with n2o in the plans, Run std rings with wider than normal gap. You don't want them to butt under the pressure.

SteveW

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5240
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-16-2002 01:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thats freaky Steve! Lol, I was just thinking about using nitrous since the engine is gonna be redone but in my post I was talking about a supercharger . Are you psychic or do you just know how I think? With having to buy the block and do all of that, it puts the a-trim out of my budget for now (the original plan before the block broke) so nitrous would be the next step . Uh oh

The more I think about the cam the less sense it makes. I think that I should just stick with the stock cam for now and use the cam money towards the nitrous .

Another question, can you have too much of a fuel pump with the EFI (has a return line and all)? I can get a Walbro 255 for the same price as a 190 and with nitrous or a sc in the future I think I should just get the 255 as long as it wont have adverse effects . Yeah, I'm gonna replace the fuel pump I think, its 160K miles old and the '88 is used for long trips.

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5240
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-16-2002 03:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anyone on the rest of my questions? I'm gonna order the block tonight.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 3890
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-16-2002 03:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just get the ring & bearing kit from Summit. But I'd waid 'til you get the old motor torn down to see if it needs any machine work first. Go ahead and order your block though.

SteveW

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5240
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-16-2002 03:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, I planned on just ordering the block today since it will take a while to get here truck freight from Ohio . Still have to rent a cherry picker and take the old engine out. I can leave the tranny in and just unbolt the bellhousing from the block right (never tried it this way but I dont see why I wouldnt work with the tranny mounts still in place)?

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 3890
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-16-2002 04:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah,

That'll work fine Tim,


SteveW

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5240
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-16-2002 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hate Summit, being a pita about price matching the block. Guy was nice and went to check, came back and said "sorry, they said I cant do it since they are Summit engine blocks". BS flag went sky high and the guy admitted he didnt understand it either. I figure I'll call back later tonight and try again .

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

<font size=1> Men are liable to err. But when an error is made, that man is no longer unwise or unblessed who heals the evil into which he has fallen and does not remain stubborn. Self- will, we know, invites the charge of foolishness."- Sophocles</font size>

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 802
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 04-16-2002 07:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You fuel injected guys should stick with 112-114 degree lobe seperation angles. 112 n/a 114 blower/nitrous.

Fuel injection doesn't work well with much overlap. I guess the O2 sensors get confused. I don't know why so many of the Motorsport cams have 110 degree lobe seperations. I know a couple of people (with mass air) that had 'hunting' idles and occasional stalling after installing E303 cams.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5240
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-17-2002 02:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ordered the block from Summit (Central Coast has upped their price $50 due to running out and needing them to build there engines). Summit says it will take 10 days to get here! I should have asked first, I may cancel my order and pay a lil more to get it from Central.

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

<font size=1> Men are liable to err. But when an error is made, that man is no longer unwise or unblessed who heals the evil into which he has fallen and does not remain stubborn. Self- will, we know, invites the charge of foolishness."- Sophocles</font size>

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Larry Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 289
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 04-17-2002 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry Jennings   Click Here to Email Larry Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Smile when you roar past the cost of a ready built OEM type crate motor Tim .

------------------
If at first you don't suceed, sky diving is not the sport for you.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 3890
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-17-2002 04:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Larry,

Now you're gonna get him thinking again and it'll never happen.
Just think how much he'll learn from doing it himself.

SteveW

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5240
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-17-2002 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Larry....

Lol, actually I added up the cost and I could not find a short block for cheaper than the cost of a block, bearings and rings . The ones out there are using hypercraptic pistons too. Since I plan on a 150 shot of the bottle they wouldnt like that . This way I also know the clearances and everything else is good cuz I built it myself (putting my ASE certs to use ).

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

Men are liable to err. But when an error is made, that man is no longer unwise or unblessed who heals the evil into which he has fallen and does not remain stubborn. Self- will, we know, invites the charge of foolishness."- Sophocles

[This message has been edited by I65Stang (edited 04-17-2002).]

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 3669
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 04-17-2002 10:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tim

The phase "Nickle and dime you to death" mean anything?

Theres always something to up the costs.

I check locally on prices for the rings ,bearings and gaskets, Summit isn't cheap on that stuff. It's also always nice to be able to see what your getting in person.... so when you notice the "-.010" on the box you can tell them "that was supposed to be standard size" and replacements are footsteps away.

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Larry Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 289
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 04-17-2002 11:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry Jennings   Click Here to Email Larry Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I still say horsepower and topless cars don't go together well. By the time you get it stiff enough to work well there'll be a bunch of tubing overhead .

------------------
Being 10 is easy! Acting 10 takes years of practice.

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5240
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-17-2002 11:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tom, I plan on getting the bearings locally.

Larry, this is mainly a street car with occasional strip duty but just for fun (not worried about points or anything) . But you are right, that lack of a roof is the reason I am not building a bigger and better engine for it but the nitrous will cure my occasional want of more power when I get around to buying the kit .

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

[This message has been edited by I65Stang (edited 04-17-2002).]

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clevelandstyle
Gearhead

Posts: 202
From: Connersville, IN
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 04-17-2002 11:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for clevelandstyle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Larry Jennings:
I still say horsepower and topless cars don't go together well. By the time you get it stiff enough to work well there'll be a bunch of tubing overhead .


I agree 100%

------------------
Ben
Grabber Green '70 Mach I 351C 4V
Robbin Egg Blue '79 Fairmont 351C 4V

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Larry Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 289
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 04-18-2002 11:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry Jennings   Click Here to Email Larry Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Timmy! I found just what you need for your 65! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1821131811&r=0&t=0 just drop this baby in the coupe and keep the vert for milage LOL

------------------
Being 10 is easy! Acting 10 takes years of practice.

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5240
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-21-2002 09:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You gonna buy it for me Larry???

Lol, I decided to wait for Scummit to deliver the block since I dont have time to do anything on it really anyhow. My dad did tell me today I can have garage space for the cherry picker so I think I'll probably buy one (lol, he told me we can store it where my mom wont know ).

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 3890
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-21-2002 10:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tim,

The cherry picker can pay for itself in no time. When your friends want to borrow it just tell them it's 40/day and leave your driver's license as a deposit. LOL I loaned mine out to my son's freinds and never got it back for months, because one kid loaned it to another, who loaned it to another, who loaned it to another, well anyway you get the idea!

SteveW

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I65Stang
Moderator

Posts: 5240
From: Antelope, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-24-2002 05:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Block is going to be delivered tomorrow .

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