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Author Topic:   Why all the bad press for the C6?
Ron
Gearhead

Posts: 112
From: Newcastle, Wa.
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 04-14-2002 03:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

You guys continually slam people who have a C6 in their rig, so it might be slower but it will sure in the hell stand up to more abuse than a C4!

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Rustang
Gearhead

Posts: 198
From: Dubois PA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-14-2002 07:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rustang   Click Here to Email Rustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No question a C6 will take more abuse. I'd be nuts to run a C4 in my pickup.

But a stock C4 with nothing more than a shift kit and converter will run in the mid-low 11's a long time! C-4's don't start getting exotic until you hit the 10's. At that point I might consider giving up that extra .2 in the quarter and build the C6. But .2 is alot of ET to give up to that Chebby in the other lane!!

------------------
'68 mustang 351 clevor- [email protected]
'67 Stang, 351W [email protected]
'69 351C [email protected]
'78 Pickup [email protected]
'79 Pickup 460 ET=??

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 2072
From: huh?? what? who? ME!?!?!?!
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 04-14-2002 11:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Even running real low 10's, and high 9's, I will never go back to a C6. In all actuallity, I dont have much more money in my race C4 than I did in my race C6, and the C4 is a whole bunch faster with the same powerplant than that C6 ever dreamed of being. Granted for a pickup, or any kind of severe duty street application, a C6 is the best way to go, but for a racecar or a hot street/strip car, they are just extra weight that also robs alot of power.

And all that being said, I would put a powerglide in my car before my C6 ever finds it's way off the shop floor and back into the racecar.

------------------
member #773
'69 mustang, 351C, 9.97 @ 133 mph 1/4, 6.27 @ 108 1/8, 1.344 60'
'70 mustang, flintstone power
'93 F150 Lightning
'99 Pro Et track champion

My Photo Page

[This message has been edited by kid vishus (edited 04-14-2002).]

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DidgeyTrucker
Gearhead

Posts: 645
From: Nashville, TN USA
Registered: Oct 99

posted 04-14-2002 01:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DidgeyTrucker   Click Here to Email DidgeyTrucker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's all about that physics thing we learned back in high school:

"an object at rest tends to stay at rest until acted upon by an outside force"

The rotating mass of a C4 weighs less than a C6, therefore it takes less force to rotate the C4. That means more force is available to move the car.

Tracy

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 2072
From: huh?? what? who? ME!?!?!?!
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 04-14-2002 01:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DidgeyTrucker:
It's all about that physics thing we learned back in high school:


Tracy


Uh-oh

I never took physics in high school.

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Ron
Gearhead

Posts: 112
From: Newcastle, Wa.
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 04-14-2002 06:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DidgeyTrucker:
It's all about that physics thing we learned back in high school:

"an object at rest tends to stay at rest until acted upon by an outside force"

The rotating mass of a C4 weighs less than a C6, therefore it takes less force to rotate the C4. That means more force is available to move the car.

Tracy



Physics? how about engineering?
I suppose the Ford engineers had no idea of what they were doing when developing the C6 huh?
I've gotta agree with the answer of the C4 being the better choice for "strip only", but a hard driven street car that not only sees abuse on the street but on the strip as well needs the beef that a C6 provides, Only my opinion... other opinions appreciated and encouraged.

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cpmaverick
Moderator

Posts: 1274
From: Auburn, AL.
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 04-14-2002 08:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cpmaverick   Click Here to Email cpmaverick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I honestly don't know much about either transmission. But if Kid can run 9s on a C4, spending the same amount of money as he would have on a C6 (That wouldn't have broken into the 9s BTW), that is a real world example of why the C4 is better.

Where is your real-world example of why the C6 is better? Did you break a heavy-duty C4? Because the C6 WILL slow you down.

The Engineers knew what they were doing I'm sure. But you don't even know what thier goal was. It obviously wasn't balls-out performance.

------------------
-Charlie Ping
1970 Maverick Grabber
[email protected] with AC and overdrive.
http://www.maverickgrabber.com

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Rustang
Gearhead

Posts: 198
From: Dubois PA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 04-14-2002 09:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rustang   Click Here to Email Rustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Last time I checked engineering was controlled by physics

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denny
Journeyman

Posts: 38
From: Northfield NH USA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-14-2002 09:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for denny   Click Here to Email denny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is some real world experiance when I bought my A/SA 427 Fairlane in 93 from R.J Sledge I had the choice of a C6 or 2 different C4 R.J said the JPT C4 had run a best of 10.47 the C6 had run a 10.51 and the other C4 a 10.53. Well having been a Jerico sp man for 3-4 years I didn't know squat about auto trans so I took the fastest of the 3 even though it was only .04 Well about 15 run into my stock elim. career the c4 locked up in 2nd gear and sry rockeed the motor. 8900rpm We saved the intake and carb. I since met Richard Todd who current run the fastest stock elim auto equipped Ford in the world guess what its a C6 [email protected]+ I think the C6 can be has fast as the C4 atleast in high torque high hp cars.

------------------
D French
67 427 Fairlane(A/SA) 73 Mustang 351c

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 2072
From: huh?? what? who? ME!?!?!?!
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 04-14-2002 10:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had almost $1000 in my c6, and it still shifted sluggishly into high gear. When I bought my C4 I paid $1085 for it ready to run. It worked flawlessly running 6.80's (1/8 mile) in a 3500 lb car averaging over 250 passes a year. I switched cars and motors, got down to 6.30's in a 2800 lb car and still never had any problems with my c4 (plus on solo passes on a "slick" track you can hear it bark the tires going into high gear). Last year I finally broke down and spent the money and puyt roller planetaries in it. It worked great all year still running 6.30's in the same 2800 lb car. It was just as fast at the end of the season as it was at the start, and that was after 350 passes. We also had a guy at ou track running 5.60's in a fox body with a 512 BBF using a c4. He never broke the trans, although he did break 2 input shafts till he got a "good" one. It then worked fine till he sold the car and built a new car but with a lenco instead. Also, there is a guy on another board with a c4 behind a bbf in a 3800 lb galaxie that has gone 9.92 and I have never heard him complain about breaking hi c4.

A bracket c4 isnt near as fragile as a full tilt class transmission. Sorry, my opinion is the c6 belongs in the tow truck, not the racecar.

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Mario428
Journeyman

Posts: 17
From: Charlottetown, PEI, Canada
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 04-15-2002 06:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mario428   Click Here to Email Mario428     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Denny, I have seen pictures of the insides of a C-6 like Richard runs. They are so lightened as to only vaguely resemble the original parts. But you do get the bigger shafts and geartrain in the C-6. Line pressure turned down to reduce pumping losses. As far as clutch life dont know that it would be any more reliable than a good C-4. Would also cost more than the C-4 to have built. Are you working on your A/S as far as getting it going. Not going to make Epping this year, too many local races in Aug.

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denny
Journeyman

Posts: 38
From: Northfield NH USA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-15-2002 09:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for denny   Click Here to Email denny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess I should have mentioned that Todds c6 was heavily modded inside. I just wanted to point out that the c6 can be made fast. I know many have great results with the c4 but unfortunatly it has been a nightmare for me. If I ever get the Fairlane out again I hope it will be with a Jerico as I already have one in the 'Stang. I am much more comfortable with 3 pedals and my car was a 4 speed at one time as the clutch pedal is still hanging in the car.

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 2072
From: huh?? what? who? ME!?!?!?!
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 04-15-2002 09:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by denny:
If I ever get the Fairlane out again I hope it will be with a Jerico as I already have one in the 'Stang.

There ya go
I have a buddy with a Jerico in his bracket car, and I know it's faster with that trans than it would be with either auto in it.

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denny
Journeyman

Posts: 38
From: Northfield NH USA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-15-2002 10:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for denny   Click Here to Email denny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Only problem is having to use 9in tires and leaf springs to hook 600 hp. It sure would be fun to try though.

------------------
D French
67 427 Fairlane(A/SA) 73 Mustang 351c

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kwazykat
Moderator

Posts: 5123
From: i'm livin' in my own private idaho.....heh heh....well... ok... really its central NC !!. M&M member #92
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-15-2002 03:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kwazykat   Click Here to Email kwazykat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by denny:
Only problem is having to use 9in tires and leaf springs to hook 600 hp. It sure would be fun to try though.



That does add a new twist to it. My buddy with the Jerico has a Canfield headed 408w that Kuntz said should be making about 625 hp, and he's using a 10.5 slick.

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 2072
From: huh?? what? who? ME!?!?!?!
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 04-15-2002 03:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kwazykat:

That does add a new twist to it. My buddy with the Jerico has a Canfield headed 408w that Kuntz said should be making about 625 hp, and he's using a 10.5 slick.

Dang, I did it again.

I need to learn to pay better attention to what user name is on here.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 3848
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-15-2002 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rob,

It seems like you are warming up to 351w blocks. They can do anything a 351c can do and survive while they do it, with aftermarket heads anyway.

Yeah that sharing computers has screwed me up too, I've posted as Melissa a few times.


SteveW

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 2072
From: huh?? what? who? ME!?!?!?!
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 04-15-2002 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
Rob,

It seems like you are warming up to 351w blocks. They can do anything a 351c can do and survive while they do it, with aftermarket heads anyway.

SteveW


It's not like I ever hated them. The first motor that I bouight to rebuild for my '70 was a 71 351W. But that was in 1989, and even though I was just starting out in the whole world of horsepower, I knew enough to know that it took good heads to make good horsepower, and at that time no one was making any good heads for a W. So I did what anyone else would do, I found a motor that came from the factory that had good heads and that would fit in my car, and that just happened to be a cleveland. And now, over the years, I have accumulated a vast array of parts (all which happened to be for a cleveland though).

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 2072
From: huh?? what? who? ME!?!?!?!
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 04-15-2002 10:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And one more thing. Although Kuntz thinks my buddy's 408 should be making 625 hp, all it has gone so far is 10.24 in a fox body that weighs in at 3100#'s with driver. Everytime I try and figure o ut what my motor should be making, it comes up around 580, but I have gone almost 3 tenths faster than him while my car with driver (me) wieghs in at 2800 lbs. For some reason, the math doesnt seem to come out right to me. But I never was any good at math

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 3848
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-15-2002 10:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is the W running alchohol?

SteveW

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 2072
From: huh?? what? who? ME!?!?!?!
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 04-15-2002 11:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
Is the W running alchohol?

SteveW


Nope, its a roller cammed, 13.5-1 compression motor, super victor intake, 750HP carb that was sent away and had work done to it, ported canfield heads that he got some decent numbers out of (very comparable to what my heads flow, and actually jsut a touch better on the intakes) and 1 7/8" headers.
The car will 60' within .01 to mine, and runs better mph than I do, but it et's slower. His best pass so far has been 10.24 at 132 mph with a 1.37 60' time. He seems happy with it, since it will "run a number" all day long. Maybe the fact it has 28x10.5 slicks and a 4.11 gear has something to do with it and he only shifts it at 6200 rpm. Sheesh, that sounds better all the time.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 3848
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 04-15-2002 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice combo,

We're thinking that Melissa's will run that number, but with only 12-1 compression and ported Vic Jrs. We'll see how it does. One step at a time, I'll set it up mild and let her get used to 11's for a while then step it up to the 10's. They are real good blocks! The engine builder had a chebby guy come into his shop talking **** about Fords. He had a 350 chebbie and a 351W short blok on engine stands and proceeded to educate him on the differences in the bottom ends! The W won hands down. The 350 chevy is about what a 289 would be if you enlarged it to 350 ci. It's cool that Ford had the foresight to tool a 351w block that was beefier and capable of high h.p. and 400+ ci's.

SteveW

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mustangboy
Journeyman

Posts: 46
From: Ont, Canada
Registered: Mar 2002

posted 04-16-2002 02:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mustangboy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Its my understanding that the mph is more important for figuring out hp.There are too many variables that can effect your ET to compare the two cars that way.

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