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Author Topic:   331 or 347?
65_289
Gearhead

Posts: 761
From:
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 03-27-2002 06:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_289   Click Here to Email 65_289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Which would be better for the following application:

-Stock block
-Shift ~6400
-500-550hp (flywheel)
-Street legal, but not daily driven.
-Ported X-303 heads
-~10.5:1 comp
-custom cam
-Victor Jr intake
-Super comp headers (anyone make a 1 3/4?)
-tranny is unknown

Also, where would be a good place to have the heads professionally ported?

Take your pick!

------------------
1965 Coupe, Tremec 3550, Steeda Tri-Ax, Cable Clutch conversion, 9" N case, 4.11's, Detroit Soft Locker, 31 spline Moser axles, Daytona pinion support,, Biondo Line Lock, Ford XB3 longblock, x303 heads, B-Cam, 9:1 comp., Tri-y headers, cut-outs, Ford Racing high-torque mini-starter, Pertronix Ignitor & Flamethrower coil, 650 double pumper, Edelbrock RPM intake, K&N air, Holley electric fuel pump & AFPR, dual 2-chamber Flowmasters, Summit 3-way fronts, Rancho 5-way rears, 5-leaf springs, Chrome Export Brace, Griffen Radiator, Comp. Eng. subs.

[email protected] w/ a 1.837 60'

[This message has been edited by 65_289 (edited 03-27-2002).]

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 745
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-27-2002 06:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think you're going to hit your hp target with a street car. You'll need to wind it up high with a large solid, roller or otherwise.

This is where it's nice to have experience in the area because when the numbers get up there the overall combo is what does it rather than the individual parts. Looking through some forums including late model I see very few people who get over the 400rwhp numbers N/A. I don't think I've seen it with the X303 heads.

Good luck though, hope you make it. I need to get mine on a dyno. One of these days...

quote:
Originally posted by 65_289:
Which would be better for the following application:

-Stock block
-Shift ~6400
-500-550hp (flywheel)
-Street legal, but not daily driven.
-Ported X-303 heads
-~10.5:1 comp
-custom cam
-Victor Jr intake
-Super comp headers (anyone make a 1 3/4?)
-tranny is unknown

Also, where would be a good place to have the heads professionally ported?

Take your pick!


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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 745
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-27-2002 06:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I should have added that the combo you list is very similar to the motor I have in my car.

342ci late model roller block
port matched Victor Jr
10.5-1
Shift about 6400
JBA 1 3/4" headers (not made anymore)
TFS Street Heat Heads (Ported - 2.05/1.60)

I doubt I have 500hp though. I would guess around 450 just based on my daily driver which has almost 400.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-27-2002 08:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you're serious about your h.p. goal you'll need a stroked 351w. Build a solid 351w stroker and the goal is attainable.

SteveW

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65_289
Gearhead

Posts: 761
From:
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 03-27-2002 08:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_289   Click Here to Email 65_289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
If you're serious about your h.p. goal you'll need a stroked 351w. Build a solid 351w stroker and the goal is attainable.

SteveW


I'm not dead set on the hp level. I just thought 500 might be possible. I saw a guy in MM&FF run 10.03 w/ an N/A 347 with a relatively mild cam and stage 1 AFR heads. (yes, I know they are better than my heads)

I just want to make the max possible hp from a 347 and still be street legal. Not that it has to run great, just enough to go to the gas station and back.

A stroked 351 would be great, but I don't have a 351 block. In a few years, when my 302 needs rebuilding, I WILL have a 302 block.

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 3467
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 03-27-2002 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've lost alot of sleep making this call, but I'm going with a 331. The 347 pistons are real short, not providing much stability. Forged slugs rock anyway, even well skirted. 347 piston pin holes wind up in the oil ring land, causing them to burn oil. Exception- Probe makes a kit with the pin lower than the ring land (shorter rod), but a reliable source (I don't want to get him in trouble) scared me away from Probe. I'd thought about it still... I too want to run a stock block since I've got several. A 3.400" stroke makes a whole buncha reciprocating mass... alot of pucker value spinning that rotating assembly over 6K in a stock two-bolt block, if you ask me.

For me, longevity and durability were the deciding factors. Well, $$$ also. If I had the means to a R-302 or even a B-50 block, that would probably be a diferent story. 331 seems to be alot easier on parts. I'm building a street car that I'll drag race once in a while at a local track, but not for blood, just for kicks

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chips67
Gearhead

Posts: 651
From: louisville, ky, usa
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 03-27-2002 10:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chips67   Click Here to Email chips67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i think he could hit 400hp and be "streetable" with an air tight combination and those heads, but not 400rwhp. the truth is, there are so very few 300+rwhp cars running round on the street. i almost hate to make or hear hp claims made, its almost of no importance most cases. ive seen cars with 100 less hp. nail others just because the "weaker" car was set up better/lighter. 500hp with a n/a 302 is a lofty goal for a street car, 400 hp is attainable with proven combos. i have to agree with steve, a 351w stroker would rock out 500 and be a lot more friendly to drive.

------------------
67 coupe, 650dp and rpm intake on 5.0 with afr 165 heads, 4 speed, 4.11's.....best so far is [email protected] in 1/8 mile with 1.79 60ft. time.

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65_289
Gearhead

Posts: 761
From:
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 03-27-2002 10:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 65_289   Click Here to Email 65_289     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chips67:
500hp with a n/a 302 is a lofty goal for a street car, 400 hp is attainable with proven combos. i have to agree with steve, a 351w stroker would rock out 500 and be a lot more friendly to drive.


What about like 450+ flywheel hp from a 347?

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 3467
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 03-27-2002 10:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd be tickled sh*tless with 400 fwhp. Trick Flow heads, Comp 270S, SuperComps, MSD, Airgap, Holley 3310, it ought to be close (I'm hoping)

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 4812
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 03-27-2002 10:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by V8 Thumper:
I'd be tickled sh*tless with 400 fwhp.

Ummm hows the power get to the front wheels anyways?

The 347 seems to be plenty capable, but i'd think the 331 combo would be longer lasting. If you were going for an SVO block anyways, they make an 8.7 deck height, that ought to be good for a 3.5" stroke and 5.7" rods

Heck of a variety out there now...i remember when the only trick parts were Boss 302 and 289 Hi Po.

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mvierow
Gearhead

Posts: 197
From: Bay Area, Ca
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-27-2002 10:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mvierow   Click Here to Email mvierow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jazzy/Steve while you guys are in this thread (and sorry for throwing this off topic post in) Are you guys planing on checking out Sears point on the 17th? First night of Wed night drags, should be fun. I'm hoping to have my car done by then, or the week after. Don't think I could handle it any longer than that! I think Alex said it best "I'm horny for racing"

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kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 2590
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-27-2002 10:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok, real world numbers from a chassis dyno on my "mild 347" in my 65 coupe. Rear wheel numbers, who cares about flywheel numbers for the street. 311 hp @ 5700, 350 [email protected]

Dyno was done with no tuning with less than 1000 miles on the motor.

Performer RPM heads 1.90" intakes
RPM intake
750 dp
Comp 270H cam
SRP forged pistons 10.6 :1
Mallory Ign system

At 5700 the motor went lean, I feel that it was running out of cam or carb.

Mike

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 3467
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 03-27-2002 10:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kcode:
311 hp @ 5700, 350 [email protected]

Dyno was done with no tuning with less than 1000 miles on the motor.


Stick or auto? Just curious

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kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 2590
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-27-2002 11:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
T-5 5-speed, pulls were done in 4th gear.

Mike

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 745
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-28-2002 01:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I usually avoid the first couple of weeks just to avoid the rush. It's so busy out there.

Anyway, the Mrs. has been gone for a month and is coming back the day before so I probably need to stay home with the family for at least a few nights. Hopefully in the following few weeks though.

quote:
Originally posted by mvierow:
Jazzy/Steve while you guys are in this thread (and sorry for throwing this off topic post in) Are you guys planing on checking out Sears point on the 17th? First night of Wed night drags, should be fun. I'm hoping to have my car done by then, or the week after. Don't think I could handle it any longer than that! I think Alex said it best "I'm horny for racing"

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 3467
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 03-28-2002 07:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kcode:
T-5 5-speed, pulls were done in 4th gear.

Mike


With the roughly 20% loss running through a clutch instead of a converter, that's around 400 at the disc, you think? Your combo isn't far off of mine... I'm building mine with a 270S and 2.02 intakes, so it's close


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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6522
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-28-2002 10:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mvierow:
Jazzy/Steve while you guys are in this thread (and sorry for throwing this off topic post in) Are you guys planing on checking out Sears point on the 17th? First night of Wed night drags, should be fun. I'm hoping to have my car done by then, or the week after. Don't think I could handle it any longer than that! I think Alex said it best "I'm horny for racing"

Yeah we're hoping to have the car finished for that Wednesday, and to compete in the GoodGuys Nostalgia drags that weekend. We'll see if the 408w is finished by then, it's at the balancer's shop now.

SteveW

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