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Author
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Topic: 351C X-Cellerator intake results :(
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64FalconF-16
Gearhead Posts: 233
From: Republic Of Texas!! Temporarily living in KY
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 03-24-2002 12:16 AM
   
I took out my edel 4V dual plane intake and replaced it with the X-Cellerator single plane. Now I know what you guys have been talking about no bottom end on the Cleveland. The car slowed down almost .5 sec every run. It pulled harder than before from about 4K on but was a Dog till then. I guess I need more cam and port plates to make this combo work. My 60s went from 1.79 to 2.07. yuck! Still managed by luck to make it to the semi's and get into a little dough though. in the musclecar showdown  So, Now for the question. What is the Best hydro cam for the single plane X-cellerator and which port plates shall I use? This is still a street car so go easy on me. ------------------
64 Pro-Street Falcon
351C 4V 8.1s in 1/8
79 Ford Bronco 4 X 4 Lifted 6"
400 9.9s in 1/8 :)
70 Plymouth Cuda'
440 Magnum. 2600#
Race Car 6.90 in 1/8
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bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 03-24-2002 01:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by 64FalconF-16:
My 60s went from 1.79 to 2.07. yuck!
Looks like there is at least 2 tenths to be gained if you can get your bottom end power back.  Was there any MPH gained??
I don't think a bigger cam is the answer. The new intake with better top end flow may be giving your carb a weaker fuel signal. Sometimes bigger jets, 4 hole spacer or annular boosters can help the situation. Just a thought. BS
[This message has been edited by bluestreek (edited 03-24-2002).]
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64FalconF-16
Gearhead Posts: 233
From: Republic Of Texas!! Temporarily living in KY
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 03-24-2002 08:28 AM
B.SThe MPH was about the same When I was running 8.1s I was through the traps at 83 - 84 MPH. Now running 8.6s It was consistently 82. It was like the rubber band would not unwind until it reached 4K then it pulled hard. unfortunatly that was after the 60 ft times and not usually until just before half track. Rick
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Rustang
Gearhead Posts: 821
From: Clarion PA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-24-2002 10:22 AM
How was your top end speed affected? My '69 Torino has a 4V open chambered cleveland with flat tops, mild hydraulic cam, and strip dominator intake/750dp. I've only had it to the track once where it ran in the 14.90's but around 100mph. I've been wondering about going to a dual plane to see if it would help the motor out any. Looking at your experience, looks like a dual plane is the way to go!?!? ------------------
'68 mustang 351 clevor- 10.92@124
'67 Stang, 351W -11.18@118
'69 351C Torino-14.90@100
'78 Pickup 351W-15.56@88
'79 Pickup 460 ET=??
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 03-24-2002 10:33 AM
I'm suprised the car slowed down. When I took my edel dual plane off and replaced it with an excellorator, it picked up .5 in the qrtr. It went from 13.80's to a best of 13.24, with normal et's in the 13.30's. Regardless of what you experianced, I would not put port plates in it. When I ran them, it did not help one bit, plus they made it hard to get the intake sealed up around the ports.
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Fordwiser
Gearhead Posts: 442
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 03-24-2002 10:35 AM
What gear and what trans? Probably needs more gear and more stall, if automatic. It's probably making more power, but at higher rpms. Now you need to let the engine run at those rpms.
Roger
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67coupe
Gearhead Posts: 491
From: dallas NC usa
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-24-2002 03:05 PM
i agree with fordwiser u probally need more stall and or gear to use that intake what cam ru currently using? my car is the same way a real dog before 4k but runs the 1/8 in 8.85 at 86 mph with a 2.07 60' (thats on radials and a 3.5 gear)------------------
Josh
67 coupe with 351c
94 Explorer
30 model A currently rustbucket
in process 67 convt with efi 5.0 and t5
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'69Stang
Gearhead Posts: 205
From: Detroit, MI USA
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 03-24-2002 03:33 PM
What cam do you have?
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Fordwiser
Gearhead Posts: 442
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 03-24-2002 05:20 PM
A 2in. 4-hole spacer may give you some low end back. That is if you have room.
Roger
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 03-24-2002 05:56 PM
It might need the advance curve sped up now too. It might also need some more total timing.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-24-2002 06:06 PM
Port plates won't help. 
They do make nice garage wall decorations though.  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 03-24-2002 06:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
They do make nice garage wall decorations though.
Yes they do
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64FalconF-16
Gearhead Posts: 233
From: Republic Of Texas!! Temporarily living in KY
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 03-24-2002 07:24 PM
ok, Here are some answers.I run the initial timing at 14deg adv. My advance curve is set all in at 3000 at 38 degrees. My cam is somewhat of a mystery now. was told it was a crane Fireball II 290 duration .524 lift. 110 deg. But I think it is smaller or... the Duration is too high and is killing the bottom end. Which means I need more lift to compensate for the duration or get a cam with less than 290 duration. Motor is open chamber 4Vs with the 9.7:1 TRW forged flats. Heads milled .010 so I am thinking 10:1 compression. Car is four linked 9" 411 gears. C-4, 2500 stall. Tires 31X16.5X15 M/T E.T Streets. With the dual plane it was strong though out the run. Only I had to shift at 5500 rpms because the intake would start to die on me. But it was stronger on the bottom end. There you have it. I think if I ran 1/4 mile my times would pickup as the car really comes on at the end of 1st and thru 2nd in the 1/8th. Problem is Ennis is the nearest 1/4 mile track and is 100 mi away and I now have 4 1/8th milers that are closer.
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 03-24-2002 07:45 PM
The timing sounds good.
But in my opinion, it needs more stall to go with that intake and what equals a fairly tall final gear ratio. But since it's really more of a street car, I would probably put the other intake back on. Too make it run real good numberson on the trackwould hurt some if it's streetability you have now; i.e. 4.56 gear, 3800 stall convertor, more camshaft, etc. It would make it faster, but less fun to drive in stop and go traffic.
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Fordwiser
Gearhead Posts: 442
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 03-24-2002 11:07 PM
It wouldn't be cheap but you could put a lower gearset in the C4 to get it off the line better and still keep the drivability.
Roger
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64FalconF-16
Gearhead Posts: 233
From: Republic Of Texas!! Temporarily living in KY
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 03-25-2002 01:32 PM
Well,I am thinking now after a bit of reflection and of course advice from you guys. 1. 2" 4 hole carb spacer. I have room cause of my new teardrop hood. 2. Moving up to a 3200-3500 stall converter. 11" so I can still street it. 3. Getting a newer, better cam. Any suggestions would be appreciated. 4. Maybe top the cake off with a little conservative N20 shot of 50 to 100. Any comments, suggestions? I want this beast to get in the mid to high 7s and still be streetable. I have Olds and Mopar buddies giving me he!! and they need some good old fashioned Cleveland style butt whippin. I want to put thier big blocks to shame.
------------------
64 Pro-Street Falcon
351C 4V 8.1s in 1/8
79 Ford Bronco 4 X 4 Lifted 6"
400 9.9s in 1/8 :)
70 Plymouth Cuda'
440 Magnum. 2600#
Race Car 6.90 in 1/8
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-25-2002 02:11 PM
Cam change would help[ a bunch. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link
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64FalconF-16
Gearhead Posts: 233
From: Republic Of Texas!! Temporarily living in KY
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 03-25-2002 02:20 PM
Got one in mind Alex?
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Mpcoluv
Gearhead Posts: 1341
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 03-25-2002 02:43 PM
Let me play the devisl advocate....
Can you increase the top end of the performer intake by milling down the plenum and/or adding an open spacer?
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 03-25-2002 04:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by 64FalconF-16:
2. Moving up to a 3200-3500 stall converter. 11" so I can still street it.
I had a 10" 3500 stall convertor in my street car and it was a streetable with a 4.11 gear and 255/60 tires.
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64FalconF-16
Gearhead Posts: 233
From: Republic Of Texas!! Temporarily living in KY
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 03-25-2002 04:36 PM
I know it Kid. I thought about the 10" too. From what I have been able to gather it seems the 11" converter lasts longer. Not quite as much heat generated and still has a good stall speed. I am not an expert by any means Just learning from some streetcar guys in the clubs around here.
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-25-2002 07:05 PM
My preferance is s solid grind. Comp 32-638-5
If it has to be a juice grind then I guess the 292H bumped 2 degrees would do. ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link
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bluestreek
Gearhead Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 03-25-2002 07:09 PM
The 4-hole spacer and the 11" converter should really make a difference in the way the car pulls off the line on either intake. They are both great improvements on any high rpm street/strip car. Don't forget to try 3 numbers richer on the jets after you get a new baseline. Make all changes one step at a time so you'll know which one helps or hurts your e.t. BS
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64FalconF-16
Gearhead Posts: 233
From: Republic Of Texas!! Temporarily living in KY
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 03-26-2002 12:07 PM
How about this cam for my application?
Cam Specifications.
Intake Duration = 278
Exhaust Duration = 290
Intake Lift = .539
Exhaust Lift = .534
Cam Specifications
Degree Lobe Separation = 114 Looks like it would be good for a Cleveland as it should have good torque numbers on the bottom to mid end. Any comments? Suggestions? Does this sound like a good cam>? ------------------
64 Pro-Street Falcon
351C 4V 8.1s in 1/8
79 Ford Bronco 4 X 4 Lifted 6"
400 9.9s in 1/8
70 Plymouth Cuda'
440 Magnum. 2600#
Race Car 6.90 in 1/8 [This message has been edited by 64FalconF-16 (edited 03-26-2002).]
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jsracingbbf
Gearhead Posts: 2954
From: Batesville,MS. , U.S.A.
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 03-26-2002 11:15 PM
I used to race a 351 c in my 69 mustang before I switched to the 514 BBF. if I were you thats what I would do, I am alot happier. BUT on your clevland, they like alot of RPM, regardless of what cam you decide on, I would suggest leaving the line at a higher RPM any way you can. I started off at 3500 RPM while footbraking with a hydraulic cam ( comp cams 305H ) DANG good footbrake cam for this motor BTW. I then went to solid lifters on basiclly the same grind cam. I then switch to a bigger carb 850 Holley and launches went up to 4500 RPM and the car dropped .5 in the 1/8th. I wound up switching to a 950 Alky carb set up and THIS woke the botom end up. I was also running alot of gear ( 5.83/ 6.00 's ) I installed a powerglide with a 1.82 low gear with a 6400 stall convertor and my sixty foot times improved again. The fellow that said throw away the port plates was right. The secret to this motor is RPM it loves it. Also use the closed chamber heads with flat tops/ angle mill the heads and you will get better throttle response. Lots of compression = lots of throttle response. Try alky it is great for fuel just don't drink the stuff. Hope this helps!
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kid vishus
Gearhead Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 03-27-2002 05:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jsracingbbf:
I installed a powerglide with a 1.82 low gear with a 6400 stall convertor and my sixty foot times improved again.
Hhmmmmm...
when I put a powerglide in my car it slowed it down .3 in the 1/8, even though all the transmission specialists I talked to told me it would be "perfect" for my combo. I think the convertor needed to be looser, it was flashing to 5500, (he!!, the convertor for my c4 flashes 6200, and it HAS an actuall first gear).
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Moneymaker
Administrator Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99
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posted 03-27-2002 08:51 PM
NOPE!  ------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link
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