Brought to you in part by:

Great deals on auto restoration supplies!

.


  Mustangsandmore Forums
  Ford Racing
  302-4V Vs. 351W Heads

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   302-4V Vs. 351W Heads
68 S-code GT
Gearhead

Posts: 3221
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-18-2002 07:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68 S-code GT   Click Here to Email 68 S-code GT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I didnít get to far in a different forum so I figured I would try it here. Itís not a real race question but it is a performance question!

I have a 71 302 that is stock except for ARP rod bolts and maybe a 270H Comp Cam, which heads are better? I plan on gasket matching and grinding out the thermactor boss if they are there. The intake will either be a Torker II (because I have one) or a Performer RPM. If I use the J-code heads I will get a compression of about 10 to 1. If I use the 70 351W heads I will get about 9.3 to 1. Will the bigger valves breathing out weigh the advantages of the smaller combustion chambers?
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/006399.html


------------------
68 S-code FB GT 4spd(now C6)/3.25 PS PDB
68 J-code(now 289) Cp Sprint"B" C4/3L00-9" PDB PS AC
99 F150 XLT Ext/cab, 4X4, 5.4L, 3L55

[This message has been edited by 68 S-code GT (edited 03-18-2002).]

IP: Logged

bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 03-18-2002 11:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First off, the 270H cam will need the recommended springs and solid retainers if you don't have them. Also Compcams long slot roller tip rockers (with rails) are a necessity on non-hipo heads, unless you want to take the chance of breaking or pulling a stud. I have used this combination many times with up to .512 lift without any problems.

In my experience, you will get better performance using the 351 Windsor heads even with the lowered compression. They have larger intake runners. Clean out the exhaust ports completely and open them up to match the gasket, and grind out the ridges under valves in all pockets. RPM intake, Holley 600, pointless ignition, and 5/8" headers would round out the package nicely.

BS

IP: Logged

steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9533
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-18-2002 11:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Milling .040" off the 351w heads will give you 10-1 compression.

But, before you go to all this trouble add up the costs. It's not hard to spend $500-600 on stock heads. Good luck,

SteveW

IP: Logged

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-18-2002 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
351W.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

IP: Logged

68 S-code GT
Gearhead

Posts: 3221
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-18-2002 10:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68 S-code GT   Click Here to Email 68 S-code GT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I intend on getting the K-kit and I already have a 600 and headers on the shelf. Do you think I need hardened push rods and guide plates?

Thanks

quote:
Originally posted by bluestreek:
First off, the 270H cam will need the recommended springs and solid retainers if you don't have them.

BS


[This message has been edited by 68 S-code GT (edited 03-19-2002).]

IP: Logged

68 S-code GT
Gearhead

Posts: 3221
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-18-2002 10:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68 S-code GT   Click Here to Email 68 S-code GT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I really just want a quick and cheap fix from stock while I gather parts for a 351W stroker.

Thanks

quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
Milling .040" off the 351w heads will give you 10-1 compression.

But, before you go to all this trouble add up the costs. It's not hard to spend $500-600 on stock heads. Good luck,

SteveW


IP: Logged

68 S-code GT
Gearhead

Posts: 3221
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-18-2002 10:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68 S-code GT   Click Here to Email 68 S-code GT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If I use one of your super secrete steal shim gaskets, will that boost the ratio from 9.3 to 1 up to about 9.8 to 1?

quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
351W.


IP: Logged

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-20-2002 02:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Closer to 10.0 to one.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

IP: Logged

Gearhead
Gearhead

Posts: 2177
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-20-2002 03:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gearhead   Click Here to Email Gearhead     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Will milling the heads or using the "secret" gaskets cause any problems with intake alignment or sealing? I am looking at a similar set up for my next engine build, and want to know what I need to be careful of.

My proposed combo is a 302 block, balanced rotating assembly, 1969 351 heads (home port job, 1.9/1.5 valves), 270S cam (282S possibly?), roller rockers, 1968 Shelby hi-rise intake (or Performer RPM if the Shelby intake falls through) and a 650 DP carb. Exhaust will be shorty headers, 2.5" X-pipe and either Superturbos or 2-chamber Flows (still undecided here... rumble or raunchy). I am looking for between 10:1 and 10.5:1 compression from the combo, and would like to rev it to 6500. It will be going in my 3000# 79 Pace Car with a T-5 tranny, 8.8 trac-loc rear diff with 3.73 gears. Use will be mostly street/show, but I want to hit the 1/4 mile occasionally, just for fun.

This thread has been perfectly timed for me!! Any further advice on the heads and set up would be appreciated.

------------------
Cheers,
Ian
M&M Member #395
-------------------
'79 Mustang Indy 500 Pace Car
Ian's Pace Car Website
Vancouver Island Mustang Association Website
Indy Pace Car Registry of Mustangs Official Website

"If you get to thinking you are someone of some importance and influence, just try ordering another persons dog around." - Author Unknown

IP: Logged

bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 03-21-2002 01:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 68 S-code GT:
I intend on getting the K-kit and I already have a 600 and headers on the shelf. Do you think I need hardened push rods and guide plates?

I have used cams as much as 290 adv.duration with .512 lift on stock adjustable 54-58cc heads and stock block with flattop pistons. Like I stated earlier, the CompCams roller tip "rail" rockers and recommended springs, retainers, and good pushrods are all I ever used for a nice cheap 6500 rpm setup. I have did this on 4 different engines without any problems. Modifying heads for studs and guide plates is very costly these days but IF you can afford it, by all means get it done or buy aftermarket heads. Your heads can be flat milled as much as .030 without any major intake mismatch. I always like to gasket match the port opening in the head and not the intake. This will eliminate the chance of any slight port mismatch.. Just make sure you throw away the end gaskets and seal with a bead of silicone instead . Also I found that the stock coil and points is only good for 6000 rpms, so I used the Pertronix module and matching coil with the stock distributor for a cheap dependable ignition good to 7000 rpms!! Believe it or not, Low 13 or even 12 second 1/4 mile times is possible without spending a lot of dough. I have timeslips and trophies to prove it!!

BS

IP: Logged

chips67
Gearhead

Posts: 663
From: louisville, ky, usa
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 03-22-2002 12:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for chips67   Click Here to Email chips67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i ran 8.30's at 83 mph (in the 1/8) with 2.0 second 60 ft. times (very crappy traction) with a badly tuned 100k mile carbureted 5.0. the only thing that wasnt stock in the long block was the e-303 cam.....12's are not only possible.........good luck, even though you dont need it.

------------------
67 coupe, 650dp and rpm intake on 5.0 with afr 165 heads, 4 speed, 4.11's.....best so far is [email protected] in 1/8 mile with 1.79 60ft. time.

IP: Logged

Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-22-2002 12:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As long as you don't use the end rail intake gaskets the "secret" (lol) gaskets cause zero allignment problems. Same goes for milling up to about .040 or so.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

IP: Logged

bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 03-22-2002 09:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chips67:
i ran 8.30's at 83 mph (in the 1/8) with 2.0 second 60 ft. times (very crappy traction) with a badly tuned 100k mile carbureted 5.0. the only thing that wasnt stock in the long block was the e-303 cam.....12's are not only possible.........good luck, even though you dont need it.



Roller cams rule!! Chips has an excellent idea. Start out with a roller block and you can gain about 10% more torque and HP on the lower end with the same duration of cam.

IP: Logged

Gearhead
Gearhead

Posts: 2177
From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-22-2002 12:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gearhead   Click Here to Email Gearhead     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bluestreek:

Roller cams rule!! Chips has an excellent idea. Start out with a roller block and you can gain about 10% more torque and HP on the lower end with the same duration of cam.

Hmmm... that's doable too!! I guess that with a hydraulic roller cam motor I wouldn't have to go to a fully adjustable valvetrain either. A good set of bolt-on rockers should be able to handle lift in the mid 500's, couldn't they? Which cam would you recommend with a combo like this?

Comp Cams XE274HR: .555 int./.565 exh, dur. @ .050 224 int./232 exh 112 degree lobe separation

Crane Cams Powermax HR-226/320-2S-14: 0.544 int./.559 exh, dur. @.050 226 int./232 exh. 114 degree lobe separation

Too much cam? Other suggestions?

I can't wait to get started on this engine build!!

Ian

IP: Logged

chips67
Gearhead

Posts: 663
From: louisville, ky, usa
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 03-22-2002 10:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chips67   Click Here to Email chips67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i just want to add a disclaimer....if you dont have an h.o. roller block to start with then you will find it cheaper and just as well to run a solid cam instead. if you already have a roller motor to start with, go hyd. roller. if you are carbed, stay away from 112-114 lsa cams. try 108-110 lsa and tailor you duration to where your motor will make power and what trans/gears you are running. as far as lift goes, get as much as your motor can "live" with once youve figured your duration. "live" in this case means about 10 different things and im too tired to think of them all. i retract any false statements i might have just made and stand by all the ones that are true and biblical. goodnight, and good luck.

------------------
67 coupe, 650dp and rpm intake on 5.0 with afr 165 heads, 4 speed, 4.11's.....best so far is [email protected] in 1/8 mile with 1.79 60ft. time.

IP: Logged

All times are ET (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Mustangsandmore Front Page

Copyright 2005, Steve LaRiviere. All Rights Reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47d

Amazon Honor System Click Here to Pay Learn More

[Build a free Mustangsandmore.ws Home Page!]

[Posting Pictures]

[About M&M][Acronyms][Calendar][Chat][Classifieds] [Members' Pics]

[M&M Conventions] [M&M Mug Shots]

[ Mustangsandmore.com Bookstore] [ Smokin' Fords] [Tech Articles]