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Author Topic:   Enough stall and gear for 282s?
Brock
Journeyman

Posts: 34
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 03-06-2002 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brock   Click Here to Email Brock     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey guys,
I have been back and forth on which cam to get for a while now but am getting ready to order it so maybe you can help answer a few questions.

The setup:
69 Mach 1
351w .030 over
forged pistons
9.5:1 cr
stock bottom end, balanced, arp bolts
Windsor Sr. heads ported by me
RPM intake
750 vac. sec.
c4

The car is mainly going to be used as an occasional driver/weekend car that I plan on taking to the track on occasion. There's a slight possibility that it will end up being my primary driver because I don't do much freeway driving. Right now I'm figuring on a 11" TCI 2400-2500 stall and 3.55 gears (8" rear). I called Comp Cams help line and they suggested the 282s. Do you agree with their choice? I'm not sure if I will have enough stall and gear for that cam. If not what would you suggest, less cam (270s), more gear, more stall? I want to keep it fun on the street and still do well at the track. I'm hoping for somewhere in the mid to low 12's, seem about right? One thing I'm considering is a 3.80 rear because the car will not see very much freeway use, at least not for any extended amount of time. I have never driven anything with higher than stock stall so I don't really know what that's like and if it will become annoying for regular street driving.

Another thing, do you think a TCI stall converter will be fine for my application or should I look at another manufacturer?

Thanks for any help,
Brock

[This message has been edited by Brock (edited 03-06-2002).]

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9533
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-06-2002 04:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Brock,

I agree with the 282S recomendation, it pulls hard from 2500 rpm to 6000 rpm in my daughter's 351w.

SteveW

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Brock
Journeyman

Posts: 34
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 03-06-2002 04:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brock   Click Here to Email Brock     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve, I think I've read elsewhere that you use or are going to be using an auto, if so, what's your converter? What gears? How are the street manerisms of the car? Is 6000 your shift point or do you shift higher?

Thanks for the reply.
Brock

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-06-2002 05:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
270S is the way to go in my oppinion. Not enough motor and too heavy a car for the 282S. For what it's worth.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9533
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-06-2002 05:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We've run this engine w/282s in front of a 3speed, 4 speed, 5 speed, and now a c-4 w/ 4000+ stall. Also ran 4.11 and currently 3.89 rear gears. It's not enough cam for the current stall, and is just a "warm' street cam. Install it 4 degrees advanced for bottom end grunt. It idle's like a pussy cat with hickups, you'll like it,

SteveW

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 03-07-2002 02:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That 11" converter will probably stall closer to 3000 once it gets broke in good and like Steve said, that cam will be just big enough to shake the fleas off at idle but really start to roar at 2500 rpms. A 3.70-3.90 rear ratio would be a lot better, but you can help your low end by using 26" tires if you go with the 3.55 gearset.

BS

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2831
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 03-07-2002 06:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Converters aren't supposed to 'break in'. If their stall suddenly increases, there's something wrong inside, or they've ballooned.

A 2400 stall converter should not footbrake any higher than around 2000 rpm. The advertised number is a 'flash' stall, that the unit might briefly jump to when coming off a trans brake or 'neutral drop'. Most people purchase converters only to find they don't seem to stall as high as they are advertised. This is why. For performance work on sticky tires, you would probably be happier with a 10" converter.

Yes, that 11" converter will allow the car to idle in traffic without lurching ahead in gear, but it won't be loose enough to take off all that hard. If all you have planned is street driving on radials, you'll probably be happy with the 11", but if sticky tires are part of your plan, you'll need a looser converter.

Good Luck?

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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Brock
Journeyman

Posts: 34
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 03-07-2002 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brock   Click Here to Email Brock     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I don't plan on ever putting slicks on it but drag radials may be in the cards. I was looking converters at http://www.atiperformanceproducts.com/ and they have 11"ers that stall closer to 3000, this may be the way I'll go. So Alex, with a 3.80 gear and a stall closer to 3000 do you still stand by your suggestion of the 270S? I have no problem with the 270S but want to get as much cam as I can for my application and the 270S seems like it may be a little small for the 351w, but, I'm only guessing and do value your guy's opinions. Does Comp make a solid in between the two, around 230 @.050?

Thanks again,
Brock

[This message has been edited by Brock (edited 03-07-2002).]

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 03-07-2002 11:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Mike,
The cheap otc converters that we used tended to "fade" after a few dozen starts with 350+ HP and sticky tires. They also have a natural tendancy to "flash" higher with heavier cars and more HP. To get one that keeps it's accuracy on the strip and doesn't slip, you have to pay three times as much. At least that's my experience.

Back when we would use the old Vega and Pinto converters to save money, they would start out stalling at about 2000 rpms, and before the season was over, they would be stalling as high as 5000 rpms!!
Maybe the transmissions would just start slipping or something. I could be wrong.


Brock,
The 270s is what CompCams recommends as a replacement for the 289 HiPo cam. Just remember that the aftermarket heads will make the cam feel bigger than it really is.

BS

[This message has been edited by bluestreek (edited 03-07-2002).]

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Brock
Journeyman

Posts: 34
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 03-07-2002 04:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brock   Click Here to Email Brock     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok, I just finished talking some more with Comp Cams and this is what they gave me:
custom solid 230/236 @.050, .520/.534 lift 110*

What do you guys think?

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Brock
Journeyman

Posts: 34
From: San Diego, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 03-08-2002 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brock   Click Here to Email Brock     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anyone?

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9533
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 03-08-2002 10:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I still like the 282s and Alex probably still like the 270s, soo compromise if you want. It won't make much difference either way.

SteveW

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2831
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 03-08-2002 11:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The 282S might feel a little 'doggy' taking off on slicks with an 11" converter... but the engine should still be more than a set of street tires can handle taking off.

If slicks aren't planned, and most it's miles are going to be on the street, the larger cam should make taking off on the street easier.

It will launch on slicks better with the smaller cam, because it will make better low-rpm power.

The custom cam you mentioned is a good compromise, and should work well.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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chips67
Gearhead

Posts: 663
From: louisville, ky, usa
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 03-08-2002 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chips67   Click Here to Email chips67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
whats the difference between a 282s and a 282xe? is one solid and the other roller.....do both perform the exact same? i was thinking about the 282xe for my car.

------------------
67 coupe, 650dp and rpm intake on 5.0 with afr 165 heads, 4 speed, 4.11's.....best so far is [email protected] in 1/8 mile with 1.79 60ft. time.

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2bav8
Gearhead

Posts: 226
From: Mesa, AZ
Registered: Jun 99

posted 03-12-2002 01:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 2bav8   Click Here to Email 2bav8     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've been running the Comp Cams 282S cam for years now. I've been thinking of a cam swap for quite a while. Its got good power from 2000-6000 but I find my motor not making much power over 6000. I want more!

Also, what about a split cam design? I have ported stock heads, I've been thinking that a spilt cam might work better.

------------------
2BAV8 Mustang
www.geocities.com/2bav8
[email protected]
1966 Restomod Coupe

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Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 1687
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-12-2002 01:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil   Click Here to Email Rory McNeil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am curious as to why a 69 Mach1 has a 8" rear end in it. In 69&70, the base engine in a Mach1 was a 351 2V, which would use a 9", did somebody steal the 9" & dump in a 8"? If you plan on running mid-low 12`s, I doubt the 8" will strong enough. To be honest, with a 2500 stall converter, 3.5 gears,& 9.5 compression in a 3300-3400lb Mustang, I think you`d be hard pressed to go that quick on street tires. Personally, I`ve always found that if you are having trouble picking between 2 cams for a street car,the smaller of the 2 is usually the best choice. If you would go to the expense of buying BFG drag radials, assuming they would be just for track use, I would strongly recommend buying true slicks instead.The cost is similar, & a 8 1/2x26 slick will be all you need, whereas a drag radial that small likely won`t be enough tire.

------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected]
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed [email protected]
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker under construction, 302 5 speed

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