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Author Topic:   cam gone bad?
spoiler
Journeyman

Posts: 43
From: fredericton-new brunswink-canada
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 03-03-2002 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spoiler   Click Here to Email spoiler     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
my engine was started last wkn-was not present but was there sunday morning mech. started the motor sounded great no miss idled great i wa out of town last wk went over yesterday expecting the car to be in paint shop only to find hood up valve cover off i ask what gives he said i think we have a cam problem- he turned motor over and one rocker was not moving-it had play took off man. pulled out lifters one was missing a pc took out cam the lobe that was mating to that lifter was chipped in a few places-the rest of the lifters looked alright to me this cam lobe edges wer not real smooth but im not sure if this is correct or not its a lun. cam kit-lifters an springs also. the guy has done this work before he said he followed the cam brekin that was with the kit
if this is human error would it be fine one day an not a few days later? or is this the result of aflaw in cam or lifters also how concerened should i be about that pc of metal-will the filter pic it up? anyone experniced any similar problem? or any advice welcomed tks er

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 4681
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 03-03-2002 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First, slow down on the keyboard!!! Type everything out in full, loose those abreviations. If I got 75% of your post...

You personally did not install the cam, correct? Were the lifters soaked in motor oil (all night) prior to assembly? Did your mechanic use the break-in lube included in the kit?

A chipped lobe can't be good at all. Was the bottom of that lifter chewed up? It's possible not enough care was taken in inserting the cam into the block... how do the cam bearing journals (the big round parts of the cam) look? Any grooves? I'd also now be most concerned about the condition of the cam bearings themselves...

Metal shavings in the motor means motor death I personally wouldn't trust my own luck to run it as is... I'd drop the oil pan to clean out as much foreign material as possible. $15 for a pan gasket, $12 for fresh oil, maybe a tube of RTV, a little elbow grease, and you've got peace of mind for under $30. Either that, or take a chance losing a $2000 (or more) shortblock.

[This message has been edited by V8 Thumper (edited 03-03-2002).]

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Ron
Gearhead

Posts: 137
From: Newcastle, Wa.
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 03-03-2002 10:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the cam break in period is the first 15 minutes of its life and if it makes it past then you are usually ok.

I wonder if he removed the extra valve springs before break in... You know my crane cam installation sheet I got with my cam didn't even notate this!

You are only supposed to run a single spring upon break in, then after break in you can replace your spings again.

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spoiler
Journeyman

Posts: 43
From: fredericton-new brunswink-canada
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 03-03-2002 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spoiler   Click Here to Email spoiler     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yes he used the breakin lube supplied
the bottom of the lifter to me looked like a clean break 1 pc of metal
iam not sure on the vavle spring reply
the cam itself did not seem to have any other damage nor did the lifters
as i stated the one lobe had some chips missing from the edge-not big but definitely noticeable. this mechanic has a good reputation and deals mainly on fords i told him i was going to call the lunatia people and he said they will tell me he didnt break it in properly-he also said he had heard of this happening but never experience it he explained to me about the first few minuites of breakin and how critical it was i dont know hell maybe there was a flaw the kit didnt cost that much iam more concerened about other damage tks guys

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Capri
Gearhead

Posts: 1671
From: Lyons, ILL, USA M&M member #007... the secret agent member
Registered: May 99

posted 03-03-2002 06:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Capri   Click Here to Email Capri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds like it broke a lifter to me. Broken lifter ate the camshaft, and the rest is history. Is this a solid or hydraulic? I doubt its a roller based on what I have read. You WILL need to drop the pan and check for broken parts. You might need to change the oil pump and screen too. Depending on how long it was run when it broke.

He is right about Lunati stating that he didnt follow the proper break in procedure. However, if it was a defective lifter from Lunati also, then you have some recourse. If it was old lifters, then you might be stuck with a broken camshaft and extra costs for labor.

Tony

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spoiler
Journeyman

Posts: 43
From: fredericton-new brunswink-canada
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 03-03-2002 07:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spoiler   Click Here to Email spoiler     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the guy working on the car said same thing tony yes it was hydraulic and new lifters were installed also. i will call lunatia people see what they say tks ed

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-04-2002 01:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ditto!

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
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Part time secret agent license #0089
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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 4681
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 03-04-2002 08:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had the same damn thing happen in a s/b chebbie a few years ago, doing a cam & lifter r&r... #7 (all the way at the back ) intake lifter collapsed shortly after break-in, didn't fracture though. I caught it in time; cam was ok, yanked the intake, replaced the lifter, ran great. Edelbrock cam kit, by the way. That's why I asked if the lifters had been soaked in motor oil prior to installation... this story is how I learned my lesson the hard way.

Alex or Tony: What gives with these new lifters failing? Lunati and Edelbrock both haven't just fallen off the tuna boat...

[This message has been edited by V8 Thumper (edited 03-04-2002).]

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-04-2002 01:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
95% of all hydraulic lifters are produced by two companies for EVERYONE! Johnson Tappet co. and Elgin Machine. That means that all of the aftermraket companies either just rebox stock lifters or do minor modifications to the oiling. Some replace the plunger and spring. It depends. That is why when you look at the catalogs there are usually two different qualities offered. The bodies remain the same in most cases. To remain competitive with each other, everyone offers the "cheapo" stuff in the kits. They are no different than the stuff you get at your local parts store. The dead give-a-way is the retaining clip. I also hear through the grapevine that some foriegn crap is making it's way here also.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 4681
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 03-05-2002 03:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well then, what's the deal with 'variable ratio' hydraulic lifters? (sounds like snake oyl to me)... I'd guess they bleed off under xxxx RPM, yes?

No, I'm not even CONCIDERING running those things, just feeding my brain

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Hemikiller
Gearhead

Posts: 667
From: Killingworth, CT
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 03-05-2002 07:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hemikiller   Click Here to Email Hemikiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Variable ratio have a larger orifice in the "piddle" valve, and allows the oil pressure to bleed out at low RPM's, reducing duration and lift, thereby improving your idle quality and low end torque. In theory. They do make noise like a mechanical cam, but if you want the noise, get the real thing!
Alex, I hear ya on the foreign junk. FYI, almost ALL of the aftermarket oil pans are based on Taiwan stamped cores. The Taiwanese really have their s**t together about stamping, and do a nice job. It all depends on how much feedback they get on their quality, and they are more than happy to improve it. Oilpans are one thing, but I'd never purchase a cam or lifter that was made in China. The metallurgy just isn't up to snuff. Heck, the American companies have enough problems with QC.

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 4681
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 03-05-2002 08:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hemikiller:
They do make noise like a mechanical cam, but if you want the noise, get the real thing!

Already got one

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 1341
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-05-2002 08:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hemikiller:
Variable ratio have a larger orifice in the "piddle" valve, and allows the oil pressure to bleed out at low RPM's, reducing duration and lift, thereby improving your idle quality and low end torque. In theory. They do make noise like a mechanical cam, but if you want the noise, get the real thing!

The crane units make less noise, and also bleeds off less duration. From what I info I have been able to find, the variable duration lifters take most of the duration off on the closing ramp, not much from the opening ramp. The Rhode lifters are reputed to never pump up enough to allow full duration. The Rhodes are also noisier that solid cams.

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 03-05-2002 11:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I used the Crane variable duration lifters on my last combo and the worked very well with a 290 duration Lunati cam in a 9.5:1 302. They made 100 or more consistent 6500 rpm runs while giving me 12" of vacuum at 900 rpm idle. They were adjusted with almost 0 clearance and the noise was a little less than a solid lifter.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-05-2002 12:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well if you would all just get away from the damn girlyman hydraulic lifters and use the REAL MAN solids, there would not be as many problems.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 03-05-2002 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"REAL MAN " ??

I'm going to use a Crower solid roller on my 331 stroker. Does that qualify?

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 03-05-2002 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
YES!

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator/ non 65-66 Mustang owner sensitivity co-ordinator

NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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