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Author Topic:   Cleveland cam question.
MattN
Journeyman

Posts: 69
From: Mattoon, IL.
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 02-18-2002 10:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MattN   Click Here to Email MattN     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am trying to figure my cam choices. Correct me if I am wrong. A tight lobe seperation narrows the power band and moves it lower in the rpm range. I am looking at a solid cam with 107 lobe seperation with 241/[email protected] .050" with .583/.614 lift. I have a 4V Cleveland, closed chamber, with 2379TRW's and an Excellerator intake with an 800DP. I want the peak power at about 6200. Where should this cam peak at? What about a solid with 103 lobe seperation with 252/[email protected] .050 with .612/.626? Thanks, Matt.

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MrXerox
Gearhead

Posts: 348
From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 02-19-2002 12:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrXerox   Click Here to Email MrXerox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You are going to have a hard time running pump gas with that tight of seperation and those closed chambered heads. Is this going to be a race car or street and strip?

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MattN
Journeyman

Posts: 69
From: Mattoon, IL.
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 02-19-2002 12:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MattN   Click Here to Email MattN     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mostly strip. I usually mix some race gas in with 93 anyway. Maybe couple hours cruise every other weekend or so.

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Ron
Gearhead

Posts: 137
From: Newcastle, Wa.
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 02-19-2002 12:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Matt, 103 would be a really stupid move, actually I don't even know if they make one that tight... where on earth did you get those numbers from?

I just completed a cam change on my cleveland, the cam I had in was cut at 105, this was far too choppy at idle.
I wanted a little better idle so I stepped it up to 108, the cam is still choppy and I haven't drove it yet but from what I've been told by a few others and my engine builder is it will definitely drive alot better on the street.
What I like is a cam thats been proven, and this one has... many people have used this cam and it makes enough power for me, heck I'll give up 25 horse or so to get more driveability on the street!
This cam is capable of producing in the 450hp range depending on your setup.
cam is a crane solid lifter #F-246, 570 & 590 lift, 246 & 256 duration @.050 with LSA cut at 108, operating range on it is 3800-7000
If you plan on runnin a big cam in a cleveland you gotta have the manifold to supply the motor and a decent stall speed converter, sounds like you got the carb nailed dead on though.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-19-2002 01:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I kinda like this one. 32-644-5 Comp. .589/.615 256/266 106 L/S.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
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Part time secret agent license #0089
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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-19-2002 10:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
I kinda like this one. 32-644-5 Comp. .589/.615 256/266 106 L/S.


Yep

I have run that cam and it is a nice grind. I had it in a "street" motor (10.4-1 compression, 2v heads) that once transplanted in my race car ran consistent 10.70's.

As for shifting at 6200 with your 4v heads, they wont like it. Especailly in a more race oriented application. 6500 at least, 6800 would be even better, especailly with the above mentioned cam.
Those big ports dont offer any low rpm velocity and therefore dont make much power until they are over 6000. My current 4v headed race motor gets shifted at 7500 out of low, and 7200 out of second and it really likes it. If it had something other than stock rods I would shift it higher.

------------------
member #773
'69 mustang, 351C, 9.97 @ 133 mph 1/4, 6.27 @ 108 1/8, 1.344 60'
'70 mustang, flintstone power
'93 F150 Lightning

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-19-2002 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I used to shift "STOCK" Boss 351's with the limiters removed at 6500 RPM.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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Ron
Gearhead

Posts: 137
From: Newcastle, Wa.
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 02-19-2002 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kid vishus:
Yep

I have run that cam and it is a nice grind. I had it in a "street" motor (10.4-1 compression, 2v heads) that once transplanted in my race car ran consistent 10.70's.

As for shifting at 6200 with your 4v heads, they wont like it. Especailly in a more race oriented application. 6500 at least, 6800 would be even better, especailly with the above mentioned cam.
Those big ports dont offer any low rpm velocity and therefore dont make much power until they are over 6000. My current 4v headed race motor gets shifted at 7500 out of low, and 7200 out of second and it really likes it. If it had something other than stock rods I would shift it higher.


tell me more about your 10.70 motor! and the setup all the way back... real interested to hear a positive number like that before I hit the track!

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-19-2002 06:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok, first of all I need to backtrack a little and inform you that it ran high 11.20's on gas, and the 10.70's were with my alcohol carb on top of it. And also, my racecar is lite, 2850 lbs with my 215 lb butt in it and 100 lbs of ballast. Plus it is strictly a racecar.

But here's the info.
It was a 351 clevleand punched .030, TRW domed pistons for the closed chamber heads on stock rods that had the normal prep work done(polished, shotpeened, ARP bolts, full floated wrist pins), used Moly rings from a race motor that didnt live very long, the solid cam from Comp mentioned above, an old Offey single plane intake, a 926 cfm BG alchy carb on top of a 2" spacer, Crower stainless rockers, 3/8" diameter .060 wall pushrods, Jomar stud girdle, 2v heads that were gasket matched with no pocket port work done to them(got them that way), stock sized cheap valves, full msd ignition and my Hooker super comp headers(1 7/8" primaries, 3 1/2" collectors) designed for the 4v heads running thru Borla 3 1/2" sportsman mufflers.
What made it run so hard was a combination of the good alchy carb, my 8" 6000 rpm convertor, and my 5.00 gear. I run a c4 with a pro-tree transbrake, I now have a 4.86 gear in the car (broke the 5.00 last season) 32x13.5W Hoosier slicks, ladder bar suspension with coilovers. I was 2 stepping it at 4500 rpm, shifting it at 7000 and going thru the lights about 7200. Best pass it made was a 10.52 @125 mph , floating the valves at the finish line in mine shaft quality air (my weather station was showing a corrected altitude of 1400 ft BELOW sea-level [40 degrees, no humidity, 15 mph tailwind], normal "good" air is around 2000 ft above).
Over the winter I ported the heads, installed good valves, 2.10 intakes and 1.65 exhuast, added a small roller cam I had laying around, changed intakes,(put an Aussie made Active intake on it), and it ran 10.40's with a cracked cylinder wall.

I still have that Comp cam, and it will eventually go back into a motor designated for the street in my '70 again. My definition of "street" is pretty loose (that cam, an 8" race convertor, 4.71 gear with a locker etc)

Whew ! That got long winded!!

------------------
member #773
'69 mustang, 351C, 9.97 @ 133 mph 1/4, 6.27 @ 108 1/8, 1.344 60'
'70 mustang, flintstone power
'93 F150 Lightning

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-19-2002 06:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Still very stout nontheless! D

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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Ron
Gearhead

Posts: 137
From: Newcastle, Wa.
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 02-19-2002 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds like a screeeemer!
I should be at the track this summer finally and test mine out... any better than 11.70's would put a smile on my face.
I've got a 67 stang with a '70 351C 4V .030 over, TRW flat tops, rods prepped, decked, balanced, and all of the other money grabbin crap.
crane solid lift cam as mentioned before, nothing done to the heads other than the typical rebuild, new manley valves, motorsport rollers and the conversion to studs.

MSD and mallory ignition, holley strip dominator (which I might swap out for that new TFC), 830 annual discharge holley fed by a cell runnin a holley blue to twin married regulators, trans is a C6 with 3500 converter and a stage 2 kit for the valve body.
Rear is a work of art! 9" HRW nod case big bearing, 4.86 gears, 35 spline detroit locker, mosier axles, housing reinforced.
well thats it! except for the other thousand dollars you spend in unmentionables.
That converter you're using, the compression and the transbrake are the hugest differences in our setups.

I'm debating on a 150hp shot "nitrous works" setup watcha think?
also wonder if I could use a T/brake with my 3500 converter or would I be tearing that thing apart?

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-19-2002 07:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That converter and the C-6 trans will be the ONLY deterant from you reaching your goals Ron. Awful tight for a 351C with your good parts. C-6 takes a ton of HP to turn also.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-19-2002 07:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I no longer have that motor, it met a disastrous fate

The motor I have now runs 10 oh's with the same convertor,trans and gear. It is a 4v headed motor with 11.5-1 compression, a Holley strip dominator intake, and a Crower flat tappet cam. The heads are open chamber units that have been shaved .050 to lower the chamber volumes to 67 cc's, I ported them and they flow pretty good, especailly on the exhuast side. Same rods and pistons as out of the 2v headed motor. One difference is that behind this motor the convertor flashes to 6400 rpm. I shift it out of low at 7500, and out of 2nd at 7200. That Holley intake is tuff to beat for the 4v heads.
A c4 will get you about another .3 in the qrtr and a looser convertor will help it move.

Something else to consider, my motor when it was on gas really liked a 950HP carb.

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2831
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 02-20-2002 03:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That converter will be fine with a shot of nitrous to get it off the line, but without the bottle, it will be a 'dud' taking off.

A good C4 trans, along with a 8" converter will be needed to optimize it off the bottle.

Nitrous is a good way to make a STREETABLE fast car. Tighter converters and reasonable compression ratios work just fine with the bottle. When race day comes, replace the 93 in the tank with race fuel, turn the valve, and it's time to rock.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367
http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220

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