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Author Topic:   Timing question
64FalconF-16
Gearhead

Posts: 233
From: Republic Of Texas!! Temporarily living in KY
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 02-15-2002 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 64FalconF-16   Click Here to Email 64FalconF-16     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, You Cleveland Guru's out there. What should the advanced timing be set for at idle? And where should it all be in at?
I know I will get a few different answers.

Right now I set mine at 14 deg adv at 900 rpms? Any better ideas? I know what is common on my Cuda. But this dang cleveland stumps me at times.

------------------
64 Pro-Street Falcon
351C 4V 8.1s in 1/8
79 Ford Bronco 4 X 4 Lifted 6"
400C 9.9s in 1/8 :-)
70 Plymouth Cuda'
440 Magnum. 2600#
Race Car 6.90 in 1/8

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 45869
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 02-15-2002 07:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Try 10 degrees initial, 14 in the distributor for total of 38 degrees in by 3000.

------------------

'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC

MCA Member # 47773

Recycle --- Restore a Classic Mustang!

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-16-2002 09:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First of all, (disclaimer), I'm definately not a guru.

That's going to depend alot on the motor's preferences. Mine has 17* initial with 25 in the distributer for a total of 42* all in by 3500. But my motor is strictly a race motor with a loose convertor (6400 rpm) that I never launch below 4000 rpm, so having the timing in a little later doesnt hurt mine. On my street clevelands, I used to run between 10 and 12 degrees on the crank, with 25 in the distributor for a total of 35-37 with it usually all in by 3000. I tried to have it in earlier , but the car idled around 1000 rpm and the lighter springs kept trying to start the advance curve there and it made it impossible to time or keep running at low speeds. I have used more in the distributor (the 28* bushing), but so long as the car wil hot start I like having more initial.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-16-2002 10:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And you run alcohol for fuel to KV.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
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Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 1069
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 02-16-2002 10:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If this is a mostly race car what about locking the timing out.

This came up a few weeks ago in a thread and I decided to do it. The first test n tune is next Sat. I locked my distributor last weekend in prep for it. It's an MSD billet dist and was set at 17? initial with 21? advance. Total of 38?, in by 2700. It idls much better and has better throttle response with it locked out. 38? from idle to redline.

This is on a 383W w 13:1 comp.

Later,

David Cole

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-16-2002 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
And you run alcohol for fuel to KV.


Yep
But even when my race motor was on gas, it ran best with about 40*'s of timing in it. That was as high as I ever tested, I got kinda scared to go any higher so I stopped there . But up to that point, the more timing I put in it, the faster it went.

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64FalconF-16
Gearhead

Posts: 233
From: Republic Of Texas!! Temporarily living in KY
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 02-16-2002 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 64FalconF-16   Click Here to Email 64FalconF-16     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So 14 degress on the crank is probably OK. For now.

Now the next question. I have this unilite distributor that came with the car. It worked so I did not change it out.

How do you set the advance curve on one of these things?

All it has in it is an LED that flashes between the trigger slots in the rotor. No weights or springs to make any adjustments.

Or should I do what I felt all along and just get the MSD?

This Car is still going to be driven on the street. Which brings up another question about insurance on another topic.

------------------
64 Pro-Street Falcon
351C 4V 8.1s in 1/8
79 Ford Bronco 4 X 4 Lifted 6"
400C 9.9s in 1/8 :-)
70 Plymouth Cuda'
440 Magnum. 2600#
Race Car 6.90 in 1/8

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-16-2002 01:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I used to run 46 to 48 degrees in our 351C high compression race motor. It needed all of that lead to fire around the piston domes.
Your Unilite should have a "curve key" to set the advance rate. It is a stepped plastic insert with advance numbers on it.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
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Hans olsson
Gearhead

Posts: 733
From: Sweden
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 02-16-2002 01:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hans olsson   Click Here to Email Hans olsson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ours like 40 deg the most. Flat top pistons 11-1 comp. Locked out timing didnt help us. We have 15 deg at idle. In stage the timing is all in (3200 rpms).

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  • 71 Mach1 351c
  • E/SA 11.89-110
  • F/SA 11.92-110

[This message has been edited by Hans olsson (edited 02-16-2002).]

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-16-2002 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
I used to run 46 to 48 degrees in our 351C high compression race motor. It needed all of that lead to fire around the piston domes.


YIKES!!

All of my motors have been domed piston motors and I have always kind of thought that was why it needed more timing than what is considered "normal".

I really like both of my MSD distributors. I have one for the racecar and one for the street car. I feel it is one of the better "value" items for the cleveland out there.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-17-2002 12:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, those old TRW hi top closed chamber slugs had a lot of head on them.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6590
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 02-17-2002 02:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Yeah, those old TRW hi top closed chamber slugs had a lot of head on them.


Yep, and the old TRW domed pistons for the open chamber heads were even worse.

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Ron
Gearhead

Posts: 137
From: Newcastle, Wa.
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 02-17-2002 11:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I run mine (when its running that is, see my most recent post)
at 14 initial with 12 in the distributor for a total of 38

really depends on what camshaft and what compression your motor is running.
I know if you've got a long duration camshaft in a cleveland they don't like vacuum advance distibutors, I've tried to recurve one several times and it never worked so I went and bought the mechanical advance and voila! worked instantly

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Ron
Gearhead

Posts: 137
From: Newcastle, Wa.
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 02-18-2002 12:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 64FalconF-16:
So 14 degress on the crank is probably OK. For now.

Now the next question. I have this unilite distributor that came with the car. It worked so I did not change it out.

How do you set the advance curve on one of these things?

All it has in it is an LED that flashes between the trigger slots in the rotor. No weights or springs to make any adjustments.

Or should I do what I felt all along and just get the MSD?

This Car is still going to be driven on the street. Which brings up another question about insurance on another topic.



like the person said below, there is a plastic key that has degrees on it that you insert into a slot inside the distributor, there is also a kit of different springs you can purchase from mallory for getting different advance curves... but beware! if you don't know what your doing then stay away from this option.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 27499
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 02-18-2002 07:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
PERSON? PERSON? PERSON?

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Part time secret agent license #0089
US Class Nationals link

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