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Author Topic:   Cleveland head mods from the twilight zone
Randy Wilson
Journeyman

Posts: 21
From: Portland, Or USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 01-28-2002 03:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randy Wilson   Click Here to Email Randy Wilson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have been mulling over some mods that I want to do to a spare set of '71 4-V heads that I have sitting around. What I would like to attempt, is to make some molds with clay (or something) and melt some aluminum to pour into the intakes on the lower side, effectively making my own port stuffers. I think if I heat the head, and pour enough to allow for shrinkage when it cools, I should then be able to shape the passage to allow for more velocity without any ill effect on flow. I was also considering stuffing the exhaust side, and maybe even the lower partion of the runners in my brand new never even been bolted on Blue Thunder intake. Not too sure that epoxy might not be a better alternative, but I wanted to throw this out there and see what some of you thought about it. At first I thought the exhaust might get too hot for aluminum stuffers, but then I remembered the old trick of milling the exhaust side of the head away and bolting an aluminum plate to the side of the head for a high port exhaust (Ford Performance by Pat Ganahl). Am I all wet here, or could this work? I will need to mill all of the surfaces after subjecting the head to this much heat, but the set of heads that I want to try this on is in serious need of new seats and guides anyway, and milling the surfaces is pretty much standard practice on a complete head refinishing anyway. I will have to cool it down slowly, as if though I had welded it, but try as I might, I can't talk myself into any reasons why this couldn't work. But then again, there is probably a reason that it is not standard practice. Any thoughts?

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Rustang
Gearhead

Posts: 403
From: Clarion PA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-28-2002 05:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rustang   Click Here to Email Rustang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I saw a set of 351C heads at a swap meet one time that the guy poured molted aluminum in the intake and exhaust ports. Prior to pouring in the aluminum, he drilled the port floors and screwed in set screws to pin the aluminum in place. It must have worked, as the guy claimed the car ran low 10's. He did say, however, that he'd never ever do another set again! I've also seen a set of BBC heads with the exhaust port floors filled with braze. In either case I imagine you'd want to preheat the heads in an oven before doing these mods.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 18704
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-28-2002 10:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We use set screws in the floor of 351C heads to help keep the epoxy in place.

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Randy Wilson
Journeyman

Posts: 21
From: Portland, Or USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 01-28-2002 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randy Wilson   Click Here to Email Randy Wilson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If I was only going to stuff the intake side, then yes, epoxy would be the way to go. But since the exhaust side seems to greatly benefit from filling on the floor side, I was kind of hoping to kill two birds with the same stone. Just haven't seen this done before. It seems like it would benefit this particular animal to also fill the lower portion of the headers, if I could radius it in well enough on that sharp bend. Anyone have any pictures of what kind of prep goes into epoxy work? (intake side only, of course). I would be interested to see how and where you drilled and tapped for your set screws. This all has to eventually fit inside the shock towers of a '70 Mach 1. Thanks for the info, Randy.

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'69Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 125
From: Detroit, MI USA
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-28-2002 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for '69Stang   Click Here to Email '69Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What are set screws? I have a set of 351-4v heads that I am thinking about epoxying on the intake side. I've heard enough scary things about the port plates that I'm not sure I want to run them.

How does one stuff the exhaust ports?

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 436
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 01-28-2002 01:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
>I think if I heat the head, and pour enough to allow for shrinkage when
>it cools, I should then be able to shape the passage to allow for more
>velocity without any ill effect on flow.

I've got a pair of high ported 4V heads that supposedly came from
Roush's shop. What's different about these heads is that the intake
ports have turning vanes in the bottom of the ports. Sort of a
3 segment guide screwed into the bottom of the port. One of the
locals runs a nostalgia drag rail and runs a similar set. Jim Sams
spoke to Red at Roush and said they didn't run the stuffers on stick
cars or automatics if the stall was high enough.

>I was also considering stuffing the exhaust side, and maybe even the
>lower portion of the runners in my brand new never even been bolted
>on Blue Thunder intake.

Take a close look at that Blue Thunder intake. Being a dual plane,
4 of the runners come in from the top at a steep angle. It might
not work well stuffed. I'd go with a good single plane like a
Holley Strip Dominator if I were trying to stuff the intake ports.

>Not too sure that epoxy might not be a better alternative

On the intake side, I'd have it welded up. Aluminum is easy to
weld up and permanent.

>At first I thought the exhaust might get too hot for aluminum stuffers,

Given the millions of engines out there with aluminum heads, I
think aluminum would work just fine. Remember your pistons are
aluminum too. What you're considering won't be as effective as
the high port mod which has much better exit angle.

>I will need to mill all of the surfaces after subjecting the head
>to this much heat, but the set of heads that I want to try this on
>is in serious need of new seats and guides anyway, and milling the
>surfaces is pretty much standard practice on a complete head
>refinishing anyway.

If anyone's interested, my high-ported iron 4V's will be for sale
(Ebay?) sometime in the near future. They are bolt-on, ready to go.
I need to move some parts to pay some bills and I've already got
the aluminum A3's so I no longer need the high-ports.

Dan Jones

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Randy Wilson
Journeyman

Posts: 21
From: Portland, Or USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 01-28-2002 03:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randy Wilson   Click Here to Email Randy Wilson     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dan, you wouldn't happen to have a picture of those intake "turning vanes" would you? Sounds very interesting. If I do go with some form of stuffed port, it sounds like your advice would be to go with my Edelbrock Torker single plane manifold (since I have one, and don't want to fork over the big bucks for a Holley Strip Dominator). I hadn't thought about the angle of the intake manifold ports. Good thing I don't do this for a living. Did the deal on your stroker cleveland pistons fall through so I can buy them from you now, or are they truly gone? I should have struck when the iron was hot!! Thanks, Randy.

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 436
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 01-28-2002 06:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't have pictures of the turning vanes yet. The heads are in storage back in Ohio and I've been dragging my feet on getting a digital camera (real soon now). I'll post to the board when I do get some pix though.

The deal finally went through on the pistons and they are gone.

Dan Jones

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DRAGSTANG351
Journeyman

Posts: 63
From: FLORIDA
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 01-28-2002 06:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DRAGSTANG351   Click Here to Email DRAGSTANG351     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
is there a special type or name brand of epoxy that you need for filling in the floors of heads and intakes? will epoxy work in the exhaust port are there certain steps that need to be done for epoxy to bond to cylinder head, i was considering welding the ports, or would epoxy be as affective

thanks:smile:
kelly

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