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Author Topic:   Race motor update
kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-22-2001 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I finally got the motor out of the car and apart. Lets just say its not real pretty inside. First of all, it had developed a vibration. You could tighten the valve cover bolts, run it a day, then re-tighten almost all of them the next day. Also, one side of the motor mounts, the bolts were loose, about half of the pan bolts were loose, one of the bolts in the oil pump was about finger tight, and the pickup tube was loose. It had a vibration

Well, the pistons are in sad shape. When I sheared that pin on the roller cam, and the valves hit them, the exhuast valves left BIG gouges in every piston top. The intake valves were just touching the pistons again (just enuff to keep the carbon cleaned off on the edge about 1/16 of an inch around the edge of the valve) that might have been due to the 8000 rpm burnouts. Also, I have another cracked cylinder. this one is actually cracked down below where th block is filled, so it wasnt leaking hardly any water. I think when the valves hit the piston it cocked the piston in the bore causing it to crack. Plus the pistons are actually undersized for the bores (it was the only block I had to use at the time) (the biggest piston was 4.027,they were all different too, and all the bores are right at .030 over so they were loose). There are, and were when I put it together, some really ugly scratches, dents and shadows in the cylinders. And 3 of the rod bearings were into copper on the upper shell.

The plan now is to use another block I had filled, with a set of new Arias domed pistons I have had for a couple of years. Use the same crank and rods but actually have it balanced this time.
And then use my heads and cam in the other block that the pistons will actually fit correctly in.

And to think, it went 9.97 in that shape

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 32961
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 12-22-2001 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmm, maybe it's time to eliminate the 8000 rpm burnouts?

------------------

'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-22-2001 07:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

You're probably right. The lack of proper valve to piston clearance coupled with 8 grand burnouts, was what was making the intakes valves touch. The crack had to be caused when the exhaust valves slammed into the piston causing an already too small piston to wobble in the bore. Those small pistons were probably the whole problem with all the cracked cylinders I had this year.

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-22-2001 08:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kid, was that the engine you threw together from bits'n'pieces after your last cylinder splitting misfortune? (post from a few months ago)

Paul

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-22-2001 09:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Clevo377:
Kid, was that the engine you threw together from bits'n'pieces after your last cylinder splitting misfortune? (post from a few months ago)

Paul


Yes it was.

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clevelandstyle
Gearhead

Posts: 614
From: Connersville, IN
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 12-22-2001 10:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for clevelandstyle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You seem to be a lucky boy!

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6352
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-22-2001 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rob,

Cool story! I'm expecting mid 9's from a decent motor in your car.

SteveW

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-23-2001 07:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
Rob,

Cool story! I'm expecting mid 9's from a decent motor in your car.

SteveW



I would too, but I'm serioulsy thinking about try that slip n' slide powerglide again. I want to do alot more box racing. I went and ran some high dollar "box" races over thanksgiving, and got wupped bad. If you werent .510 or better, and "dead on with a..." every pass, you got the honor of going home. I never got out of the first round, and after buying back, never got past the third round.

My car is pretty consistent, but having to shift twice, just leaves that much more room for error.

We'll see, I am kind of prone to changing my mind about that sort of thing a half dozen times.

Rob

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Fordwiser
Gearhead

Posts: 213
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 12-23-2001 10:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fordwiser   Click Here to Email Fordwiser     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll need to check, but I think I have three decent used TRW L2348 .030 If that's what you used! Maybe they'd replace your worst offenders for a spare shortblock.
Roger

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ragtopjr
Gearhead

Posts: 2447
From: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada.
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-24-2001 01:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ragtopjr   Click Here to Email ragtopjr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kid with junk you were running quicker then many with high dollar engines, you have to be proud of what you did with a mismatch of used up parts

This new motor should be wicked

------------------
Ed
Heart mods:Trick High flow titanium valve ported & polished Listen close: "tic tic tic" No folks thats not a noisy lifter thats the sound of big flow!
1984 5.0L LX Conv 3600 lbs 13.41 at 101.89 SIR
http://ragtopjr.hypermart.net/
http://ragtop-racing.stangnet.com/
http://mbmustangs.tripod.com/index.htm

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-24-2001 08:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And after further inspection today, I found that the main webbing under the #2 cap, and under the #4 cap was cracked. And the crack under the number #2 cap, started thru the main bolt hole, went clear down and under the crank, and ended at the bolt on the opposite side. Maybe that was where the vibration was coming from

I think that motor was definatley a hand grenade with the pin pulled waiting to go off.

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futurattraction
Gearhead

Posts: 106
From: Iowa City, IA
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 12-24-2001 10:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for futurattraction   Click Here to Email futurattraction     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
KV,
...sounds like it was just waiting for the right opportunity to 'splode.

So what's the plan for your new engine, then? I've kinda lost track of what you're going to do for next year.
SP

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Dr. Who
Gearhead

Posts: 164
From: Redwood City, Ca.
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 12-25-2001 01:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dr. Who   Click Here to Email Dr. Who     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll bet your happy you didn't go the whole 10% of "pop" you might have run over the crank. LOL!

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-25-2001 08:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by futurattraction:
So what's the plan for your new engine, then? I've kinda lost track of what you're going to do for next year.
SP


I have another block that has been filled. It needs finish bored to match the pistons. I have a new set of Arias closed chamber domed pistons I am going to hang on the ends of the rods out of this years motor, and use this years crank and actauly have this assembly balanced. I will re-use the solid Crower cam, my 4v heads, and my strip dominator. I am still debating on whether or not to buy a new set of headers, these are getting to look pretty bad and Heddman has a set with 2 1/8" primarys (I think thats the correct size) that will fit my car. I am also thinking about trying my powerglide again (but I will probably change my mind about that 3-10 times before spring anyways). I would also like to try that 2v Active intake on my 4v heads at some time to see how bad it kills/helps the power.

Lots of plans, no sure how muh will get done, but regardless, I hafta have a new block, this one is winter weight for the back of the truck now.

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Fordwiser
Gearhead

Posts: 213
From: Metamora, Illinois
Registered: Dec 2000

posted 12-25-2001 11:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fordwiser   Click Here to Email Fordwiser     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kid, I think Dart should give you one of those new 9.2 deck blocks, and let you do product testing for them! If it holds up to you, it'll work for anyone! :-) Good Luck
Roger

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-31-2001 08:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I went to the Arias site today. Found out the pistons I am switching to are going to raise my compression from just under 11.5-1, to 12.1-1. Now if I can only retain my valve to piston clearance.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 6352
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-31-2001 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Heck Kid,

You could run 13-1 on your alkihaul. Just fly cut 'em and run low nines next year, or add a t-stop/delay box and run the 10.90 class.


SteveW

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 12-31-2001 10:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by steve'66:
Heck Kid,

You could run 13-1 on your alkihaul. Just fly cut 'em and run low nines next year, or add a t-stop/delay box and run the 10.90 class.


SteveW


I already got the delay box, just need the t-stop.

If I swap heads, and use my closed chamber heads as opposed to the opens I am using now, it would bump the compression up to right at 13-1 (well, if I deck the block a little). My open heads have 67 cc chambers, my closed have 64 cc chambers. At the statt of last yr, I had almost 14-1 compression, and lots of clearance problems.

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ASTIKHOSSW
Journeyman

Posts: 84
From: UPLAND CA SAN BERNARDINO
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 12-31-2001 11:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ASTIKHOSSW   Click Here to Email ASTIKHOSSW     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
KID" SORRY TO HERE YOUR PROBLEMS,BUT IS YOUR ENGINE COMBO A CLEVELAND SET UP.IF SO I
HAVE A USED SET OF STROKER VENOLIA PISTON THAT ARE 4.065 WITH 1.100 COMPRESSION HEIGHT GAS PORTED WITH TWO RINGS FOR A CLOSED CHAMBER HEAD.AND I ALSO KNOW A GUY THAT HAS ONE OF THOSE FURANCE BRAZED BLOCKS THAT IS 4.100 BORE WITH THE BIG SLEEVES BRAZED IN IT.IT'S ONE OF THOSE TYPE OF BLOCK'S THE GLIDDEN'S USE TO RUN IN PRO STOCK BACK IN THE DAY.HE USE TO RUN IT IN THE OLD MODIFIED CLASS NHRA HAD.IF YOU INTERESTED LET ME KNOW.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19686
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-01-2002 01:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe now that it's 2002 I can get excited about something again and give you guys/gals a 2002 MM motor update. SOme new tricks I have learned that might just surprise you all.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00, '01, & '02
Fleet of FoMoCo products including 88 ASC McLaren Mustang #28
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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clevelandstyle
Gearhead

Posts: 614
From: Connersville, IN
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 01-01-2002 02:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for clevelandstyle     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeh, Yeh, Yeh,!!!!!!

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 01-01-2002 09:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ASTIKHOSSW:
KID" SORRY TO HERE YOUR PROBLEMS,BUT IS YOUR ENGINE COMBO A CLEVELAND SET UP.IF SO I
HAVE A USED SET OF STROKER VENOLIA PISTON THAT ARE 4.065 WITH 1.100 COMPRESSION HEIGHT GAS PORTED WITH TWO RINGS FOR A CLOSED CHAMBER HEAD.AND I ALSO KNOW A GUY THAT HAS ONE OF THOSE FURANCE BRAZED BLOCKS THAT IS 4.100 BORE WITH THE BIG SLEEVES BRAZED IN IT.IT'S ONE OF THOSE TYPE OF BLOCK'S THE GLIDDEN'S USE TO RUN IN PRO STOCK BACK IN THE DAY.HE USE TO RUN IT IN THE OLD MODIFIED CLASS NHRA HAD.IF YOU INTERESTED LET ME KNOW.

Yes it is a cleveland combo. But unfortunately, my finances wont even allow me to think about buying something like any of what you described.

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V8 Thumper
Gearhead

Posts: 3366
From: Orange, Ca. United States of America
Registered: Dec 2001

posted 01-01-2002 11:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for V8 Thumper   Click Here to Email V8 Thumper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
---------------------------------------------
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Moneymaker:
...new tricks I have learned that might just surprise you all.
---------------------------------------------


Ok Alex, you have my attention...


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