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Author Topic:   460 on Nitrous
Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 968
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-16-2001 08:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi all,

Need some ideas. Helping a friend (without web access) set up his car for a very popular heads up index class drag racing down here in Alabama.

They run on a .400 pro tree with really only 3 rules (other than safety equipment)

1. 3000 lbs minimum
2. mufflers
3. 10.5 slicks (or 10.5W dot's)

1/8 mile only, classes are 8.00, 7.00, 6.20, 5.70.

The car is a 69 Mach 1, with a 460. It has mild hyd cam .585/.585 240/250 @.050. .030 TRW mini-domes (~10.5:1) home ported DOVE heads, Crites headers, Offy Port-O-Sonic single plane, 850 dp, recurved Duraspark w MSD 6AL, 1.73 roller rockers, all the usual stuff. Trans is a C-6, fully rollerized, lightened drum, etc, with a transbrake, 4500 stall 10" converter. 28X10.5 MT slicks, 4.56 geared 9" with Moser 31 splines and full spool. Car has ladder bars/coil overs and mini-tubs. Weighs 3180 w driver.

The car currently runs 7.15-.20 in the cool, 7.20-25 in the heat mph is ~95. He has a nitrous system that he used to run in this car when it had a 351C. (7.20's w/a 150 shot). The car is still plumbed for it. 1/2 fuel line, Holley black pump for the motor, 3/8 line and a blue pump for the bottle.

He wants to install the nitrous and put just enough of a shot to run 7.00. He could go after the 6.20 (my idea), but he figures that would also mean a cam change.

How much would it take to drop the ET to to 7.00? 75? 125?

Also, he has a good Dedenbear crossover style delay box. I figure that there must be some way to use this box as a timer for the nitrous system (he doesn't use it bracket racing). The box can be set anywhere from 0.001 to 99.999 seconds. Would like to maybe use a bigger shot like a 150, but only turn it on at half track or so. Just need to know how to wire it. Normally open or closed relays? Run it off the Two Step? How? That way it will still run the 7.00, but run a big mph. Harder for the opponent to judge.

Ideas? Suggestions?

Thanks,

David Cole

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Butch Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 624
From: No. California
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 12-17-2001 12:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Butch Jennings   Click Here to Email Butch Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

It seems to me that car should easily run 7 flat as is.

------------------
Butch
460 powered 1967 Comet Cyclone
10.271 @ 130.069
Butcher's Home Page
"Friends don't let friends drive Chevys"

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Big Block Capri
Gearhead

Posts: 136
From: Essex, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-17-2001 11:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big Block Capri   Click Here to Email Big Block Capri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Dave,
Your buddies combo is not that much unlike ours. There are two things that I would suggest before going the nitrous route. That intake takes away from the bottom end that these motors love to make and the convertor may be too loose to make much more MPH. We are about #300 lighter, run a Stealth intake and only a 3600 stall. Our results are shown in our signature. He should be able to see 7.0s easily without nitrous.

------------------
Paul Garant
"No replacement for displacement."
1984 Capri 466ci.
1/8 ET 6.646
1/8 MPH 103.34
1/4 ET 10.466
1/4 MPH 132.68
60 FT 1.406

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-17-2001 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Butch. It should be running that well now.
But in the interest of higher learning, I think that this question would be better fielded by none other than Mr. No2 Mike himself.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2419
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-17-2001 12:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It just depends on what he wants to do...

I'm not into bracket racing, I just like going as fast as i can on a casual basis in a streetable car. Nitrous allows me to blast a pump gas compression car around the roads off the bottle, then switch to race fuel and open the bottle at the track for maximum et's.

It sounds like this guy wants to run consistent 7.0's. Nitrous isn't really the best way to be consistent. It's just one more variable to account for. Yes, it IS fun, and if he wants to take a shot at the 6.20's, nitrous will allow him to do that.

If he really wants to be competitive (consistent), however, his best bet is to run off the bottle.

I agree that the converter sounds a bit loose. His car would probably pick up with the Stealth and a slightly tighter converter. He might get there with the stealth alone.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2419
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-18-2001 06:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
He could also use a bit more camshaft. A good solid lifter unit with 8-10 more degrees on both the intake and exhaust would be good.

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-18-2001 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by n2oMike:
It just depends on what he wants to do...

If he really wants to be competitive (consistent), however, his best bet is to run off the bottle.

Good Luck!


Isn't that the truth, can you imagine keeping the bottle pressure the same for several rounds during eliminations. You'd need several bottles, bottle warmers, coolers, and you wouldn't have any time to concentrate on racing.

SteveW

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Dr. Who
Gearhead

Posts: 164
From: Redwood City, Ca.
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 12-18-2001 09:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dr. Who   Click Here to Email Dr. Who     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's true that keeping the bottles at the same pressure is a fight on a cold night or a hot day, and accounting for the air change and what that does to the motor seperately even adds a bit to the consistant aspect of tuning the whole mess round to round. Butcher and I have won bracket races on the jug and we "earned" every round, and then there's the races we lost cause the car stepped up when we "thought" we were fine ! And if all the work doesn't take the fun out, some "never tuned a car in his life" jerk will tell you, after you win, how easy you had it cause you run juice !

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Dave_C
Gearhead

Posts: 968
From: Gadsden, Al
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-19-2001 10:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave_C   Click Here to Email Dave_C     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks for the input guys.

I'll try to steer him away from the bottle. (Maybe put it on mine and see if can run some 6.0's ,).

I have said all along that it needed more cam. The hyd grind in there now is something you would drive to the grocery store. It was one of those deals where he got a new in the box cam for next to nothing on a trade. Does anybody have a recommendation for a good solid flat tappet cam? The general car specs are at the top of this thread. When we put the engine together I checked the piston to valve clearance. It can handle up to about .630 lift before it gets dangerous.

The converter actually works well in the car. It had a 10" 34-3500 stall in it. We swapped in the 4500 (flash is 4500) and it picked up .15 in the 1/8 and .08 in the 60 ft with no other changes. BTW, he shifts it at 6000, crosses the 1/8 mile in 3rd at 5500.

Thanks,

David Cole

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Big Block Capri
Gearhead

Posts: 136
From: Essex, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-19-2001 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Big Block Capri   Click Here to Email Big Block Capri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dave,
We run the Comp Cams 34-343-4 solid cam. It has an advertised duration of 306 and 260 on both sides at .050. It has .640 lift so you would have to check the clearance. It works from 3000-6800 and we're really happy with it. It ran .08 quicker in the 1/4 at 2 advanced but lost about 2 mph over being installed straight up.

------------------
Paul Garant
"No replacement for displacement."
1984 Capri 466ci.
1/8 ET 6.646
1/8 MPH 103.34
1/4 ET 10.466
1/4 MPH 132.68
60 FT 1.406

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ciscokid
Gearhead

Posts: 129
From: Ooltewah, TN
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 12-19-2001 11:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ciscokid     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lunati 41607 (grind number SPZ2-305-314) is a great cam. I ran this in my 460 in a R.E.D. with much success. It is 265/272 duration at 0.050 lift and has a net lift (after lash) of 0.572/0.577. I ran a 5500 stall converter and shifted at 6500. Good stick.

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