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Author Topic:   AOD and a stall converter??
69maverick
Moderator

Posts: 1455
From: Thomaston,CT.
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-09-2001 08:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 69maverick   Click Here to Email 69maverick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My son wants to put an AOD in his 68 stang next week. I have a line on a good one out of an 85 lincoln.The stang has a some-what built 351w about 410 hp? an 8" 4-11 lincoln locker. Used mainly for the street but it will see a few trips to the track!! What stall would be good on the street and what brand would anyone reccomend?
As a side note what flex plate do I need?

------------------
Jim B. 70 Maverick Grabber clone 302,c4 auto
Weld drag lites,Holley 600,performer intake,comp cam,MSD ignition,2.5 " pipes Still needs paint!!

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 813
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-09-2001 08:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Check the archives for the C4-to-AOD swap article I did. It should have the info on the flex plate.

Dan Jones

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69maverick
Moderator

Posts: 1455
From: Thomaston,CT.
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-10-2001 08:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 69maverick   Click Here to Email 69maverick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Dan But I didn't see any info on the flex plate! But Did notice that the AODE seemed to be the prefered choice to do the swap to if your going one??

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-10-2001 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We have good used Flex Plates in stock for $25. Contact JPT via e-mail [email protected] or 517-663-0578 for stall converter needs. There are two types available. With or without lock up.
We just installed a JPT ten inch non lock up over the weekend for a customer and the is still peeing in his pants. The car went from not being able to turn the tires to smoke city. Driveability was not hampered.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 813
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-10-2001 12:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jim,

Were you looking at the C4-to-AOD article? There's an entire section on it. It's reproduced below.

Dan Jones

Flexplate Diameter and Balance
------------------------------
One of the more important parts of the swap is to choose the proper
flexplate for your application. The integral bellhousing AOD requires a flexplate
with 164 teeth (approximately 14 1/4" diameter with an 11 7/16" torque converter
bolt pattern) for proper starter placement and converter compatibility. The
C4, however, uses a detachable bellhousing that is matched to one of three
different flexplate sizes (148, 157, and 164 teeth). The 148 teeth
flexplates are comparatively rare, having been used in cars like the V8 Mustang II.
The 157 teeth flexplates were generally used in 289/302 small and mid-sized
cars, while the 164 teeth flexplates were used in 289/302 full-size cars and
351W/351C applications. The C4 164 teeth flexplates and the AOD 164 teeth
flexplates will physically interchange, but there are two balance weights
(pre-'81 302's use a 28.2 oz-in balance weight, '81-up 5.0 HO's are 50
oz-in), to be concerned with. I haven't had a chance to verify but I think all
351W's and 351C's used 28.2 oz-in balance factors. Also, the catalog I looked at
suggested that 1981 and up non-HO 302's are still 28.2 oz-in (at least to
1990). Anyone know for sure? In my case, the flexplate in the 1971 Mustang
came with 157 teeth and a 28.2 oz-in balance factor, so it required
replacing. Since they both have 164 teeth and 28.2 oz-in balance factors, I was under
the impression that flexplates from either a 351W w/AOD or early 289/302 w/C4
from a full-size car would work. Looking through the books at the parts store
showed that these were not common part numbers, and listed the 351W part as
working with an AOT, not AOD, transmission. Not knowing if the AOT
indicated a subtle variation that I was unaware of, I decided to order the early
289/302/C4/full-size part (OEM D1AZ-6375-A, Saginaw XF15). This turned out
to be a mistake. When we put the converter and transmission up to the engine
for a fit check, the modeling clay we had put in the crank pilot showed the
converter snout was barely making contact. Apparently there is a difference
in flexplate depth. It all would have bolted together and the starter may
have even managed to reach the flexplate teeth, but there would have been no
support for the converter and the starter would have eventually chewed up
the flexplate. Procuring a 351W/AOD flexplate over the holidays turned out to
be an ordeal (dealers wanted 14 days), but it was required for proper converter
snout to crank pilot placement, while retaining the proper diameter and
balance. We finally found a transmission supply house that had the right
piece. We put the 351W/AOD next to the early 289/302/C4/164 teeth part and
there was a difference in height. Since then I have checked some
aftermarket catalogs and they show the same part number for both applications, so buyer
beware. The part we finally obtained was from Sealed Power and corresponded
to OEM E0AZ-6375-A (164 teeth flexplate, 28.2 oz-in balance factor, 351W
with AOD applications). If you're swapping an AOD onto an '81 or later 5.0,
you'll need the AOD flexplate (164 teeth, 50.0 oz-in balance factor, for 5.0
with AOD applications). I think the OEM part number for the late 5.0/AOD
is E2AZ-6375-A, but I didn't verify this. In a pinch, you could swap (weld)
balance weights between flexplates to get the proper balance factor. If you
choose to do this, remember that the balance factor is a moment of inertia
(distance time mass) so keep the product of the distance from the weight to
the center of the flexplate and the balance weight (plus any additional weld
weight) equal to a constant (either 28.2 or 50.0 oz-in).

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69maverick
Moderator

Posts: 1455
From: Thomaston,CT.
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-10-2001 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 69maverick   Click Here to Email 69maverick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex do you have part #E0AZ-6375-A if so lets pack that baby up!!

P.S. Dan Thanks that was helpfull!

[This message has been edited by 69maverick (edited 12-10-2001).]

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-10-2001 03:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll check the part number in a few.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-11-2001 11:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't have an EOAZ. Sorry

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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69maverick
Moderator

Posts: 1455
From: Thomaston,CT.
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-11-2001 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 69maverick   Click Here to Email 69maverick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ok thanks Alex I found one at a dealer for 80 bucks!

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 813
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-11-2001 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
>Go to this guy's site. He is FULL of that type of information.
>He loves to build the "unique". His name is Dave Williams

No need to go to his site, I've been to his house! In fact,
he has my 351C block and 400 crank at his shop, waiting for
me to finish the heads and pick a cam. Dave will also be
doing the crank work on my little Buick/Rover aluminum V8
(he's got one of his own that he plans to do for a scratch
built Lotus Super Seven clone). I've got the combo worked
out but, at this point, I'm looking for opinions on how well
the off-the-shelf cast 255 V8 or Ford V6 pistons will hold
up to the power and RPM.

>D&D Fabrications specializes in those engines. 810-798-2491.

Yup, Dan Lagrou is the man. He recommends the Ford 255 piston
(3.68" bore +0.030"):

SilvoLite p/n 1176
Nylen p/n 1134P
Sealed Power 9039P (not sure if this one's still available)

Any idea if one of these companies is likely to make a better
piston than the others? A 2.8L Ford V6 piston with a 1.516"
compression height would also work (Perfect Circle 224-1999
+0.060") if I use a 2" journal 5.7" rod instead of the Buick
rod.

Thanks Much,
Dan Jones

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69maverick
Moderator

Posts: 1455
From: Thomaston,CT.
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-11-2001 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 69maverick   Click Here to Email 69maverick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dan ya lost me on this last post??

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I65Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 6239
From: Folsom, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-11-2001 03:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 69maverick:
Dan ya lost me on this last post??

He accidently replied to his "oddball Ford piston" post in here, no worries .

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 813
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-11-2001 04:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yup, I fat fingered it. Sorry about that.

Dan

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