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Author Topic:   Speed density plus supercharger?
Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 813
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-09-2001 07:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anyone have any experience with supercharging a speed
density 5.0L? I'm being tempted by a group purchase on a
Paxton Novi 1000 kit for $1400. This would be for my daily
driver 1987 Mustang GT. Plans would be to freshen the short
block, add a set of home ported DOOE Windsor heads to go
along with the Motorsport off-road H-pipe, shorty headers,
and 1.7:1 ratio rockers already on the car. The stumbling
block is that my car is still speed density which doesn't
adapt well to changes. I wouldn't have a problem with something
like the EEC tuner but it only applies to mass air EEC's.
AFAIK, there is no aftermarket support for the speed density
EEC's. Supposedly the Paxton kit will work the speed density
EEC (assuming a stock cam) but am I constrained to stock 19#
injectors plus an FMU? That would limit the power I could
make. A mass air conversion would be nice sort of blows the
budget. The alternative would be rebuilding with a 347 stroker
kit.

Thanks,
Dan Jones

Also, what ever happenned to those MAC 5.0L intake manifolds,
the inexpensive ones that were supposed to be an improved
Edelbrock Performer?

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I65Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 6239
From: Folsom, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-10-2001 01:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not much of a help (other than bringing it to the top ) but who is this group purchase through??? Is it for the whole '87-93 kit or just the head unit? Is that before or after the $100 rebate Paxton is offering til 12/31? Enquiring minds want to know .

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-10-2001 10:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dan, I have done a half dozen or so. Mostly Mark VII LSC's. All with outstanding results and no long term side effects. What would you like to know?

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 813
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-10-2001 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tim,

Mustang Performance Northwest is the dealer doing the group purchase.
See http://www.modernperformancenw.com/paxton-gp.html for details.
The $1400 price includes the rebate but the order has to be in within
the next day or two (I just learned about it over the weekend). The
price is for a full kit, including blower, pullies & belt, mounting
bracket, inlet/outlet tubes, K&N cone filter, and FMU + fuel plumbing.
You should be able to specify which FMU you need based on the injectors
you are running,

Alex,

Can you run bigger injectors with the speed density EEC and supercharger?
The FMU is okay for 6 lbs of boost on a bone stock motor but with better
heads, more boost, more lift, a good exhaust etc. I'm worried about
running out of fuel.

Thanks Much,
Dan Jones

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-10-2001 03:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We have used over the counter FMU's with as much as 10 lbs of boost Dan. Again, no ill side effects. We have used 24 lb injectors also, but no appreciable gain over the 19's. We have had the greatest success (power with ET slips to back it up) on stock engines using smaller 10 lb pulleys, 190 LPH in tank pump, adjustabale regulator, and 1.7 bolt on pedestal rockers. Stone stock EEC IV with no piggy back or intercepter systems required. Idle quality remained very good and the only adjustments required were recalibration of TP voltage. (holes must be slotted).
I had a 92 LSC Special Edition demo with 3.55 gears we supercharged that went 13.50's through stock cats and exhaust. With an "H" pipe and some efficiant exhaust I have no doubt that it would have run in the 13.20's or better on stock Goodyear Eagles. The customer who purchased it new still has it today and is quite happy with it. He surprioses a whole bunch of kids in their LT-1 craparos or fireturds.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

[This message has been edited by Moneymaker (edited 12-10-2001).]

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 813
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-10-2001 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cool, that's what I wanted to hear. I knew the mass air EEC's
could handle the boost but I wasn't sure if my speed density
would. Keeping the 19# injectors and just adding the 190 LPH
fuel pump and FMU would be great. Here's the rest of the plan:

1) Rebuild the short block since it has 140K miles, add ARP
rod bolts, double roller timing chain, and new water pump.
Re-use roller cam and lifters. New oil pump and heavy
duty oil pump shaft. I might go aluminum on the pump.
Any recommendations? Also, any recommendation on the rings?
The factory 5.0L low tension rings have always used a
quart of oil between oil changes (3000 miles).
2) Replace stock 5.0L heads with home-ported DOOE 351W heads
(already have a set with studs and guide plates and the
required head bolts). The DOOE intake ports are a fair
bit larger than my stock intake manifold ports. Should
I port match the manifold?
3) 1.7:1 roller rockers. Anyone have a brand recommendation
for stud mounted 1.7 rockers? I'll also need springs to
match. Any recommendations (spring pressure open/closed?)?
Actually, the DOOE heads have double springs but I'll need
to check their specs.
4) Adjustable pressure regulator. Recommendations?
5) Stainless steel Ford Motorsport unequal length shorty headers
and 2 1/4" off-road pipe (already on car)
6) Air conditioner seals (they're leaking)
7) Ford mini starter (have from a previous project)
8) Head gaskets?

I was also thinking about adding an MPG Products windage tray
but I'm wondering if I should be stepping up to a road race
pan? The car does have a road race suspension and sticky
tires but is street driven only, so I was hoping I could get
away with a stock pan.

What's the recommended spark plug and gap for the DOOE heads,
given the supercharger.

Anyone know if the Paxton drive pulley will bolt up to an
Auto Specialties underdrive crank pulley?

Any other things I need to consider or add to the budget?
Boost and oil temperature guages perhaps?

Thanks Much,
Dan Jones

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-11-2001 11:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dan, you can't beat a Melling oil pump. M-68 or M-68 HV for looser clearances.
I like and always have Sealed Power rings (Speed Pro)good stuff. The low tension rings are for fuel economy and performance.
We have taken on the Scorpion Rocker Arm line and are quite inmpressed. Ultra high quality at a "no name" price. All ratios are available. We have a big block chebbie single spring with a dampner that we love to use for SBF's with stock roller HO cams and 1.7 rockers. very economical and give over 100# on the seat forever.
Aeromotive or Paxton regulator. DOn't bother with any other. (Aeromotive make them for Paxton)
3428SG Victor Rientz head gaskets or SSC's. Don't bother with Fel-Pros for blower applications.


------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 813
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-13-2001 07:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just a quick note to let you know I ordered the Novi kit. I won't be putting on until the weather warms up, after I freshen the motor. I'll have to put together a list of parts I need and get a quote from you Alex.

Thanks Much,
Dan Jones

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-13-2001 07:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good for you Dan.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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I65Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 6239
From: Folsom, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-13-2001 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Daniel Jones:
Just a quick note to let you know I ordered the Novi kit. I won't be putting on until the weather warms up, after I freshen the motor. I'll have to put together a list of parts I need and get a quote from you Alex.

Thanks Much,
Dan Jones


I am jealous!

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-13-2001 11:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As well you should be Tim.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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Blu Dawg
Journeyman

Posts: 60
From: Texas
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 12-14-2001 09:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blu Dawg   Click Here to Email Blu Dawg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just a little note, anytime that you have a bigger oil pan, it is better. You have cooler oil, and a larger reserve. And there are plenty of "street" pans avalible that don't drag the ground. Oil pan is insurance, but not needed.

------------------
Brad H.
Blue '68 Cali. Special, 3.50's in a disk break 9 in., 4-bolt main SVO 351W w/3.750 stroke crank, 6.250 h-beam rods, 10.5:1 comp, 9 in. convertor C-4

Best time motor 11.40 @116.87 (7.23 @95 1/8)
Best N2O 10.60 @127 (6.76 @103 1/8)
[img]http://members.aol.com/calstang68/images/brad's%20car.jpg[/img]

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Blu Dawg
Journeyman

Posts: 60
From: Texas
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 12-14-2001 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blu Dawg   Click Here to Email Blu Dawg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
sorry guys, just had to see if it would work, BTW what do you think of my baby??

[This message has been edited by Blu Dawg (edited 12-14-2001).]

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-14-2001 11:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like the GT/CS look.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 813
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 12-14-2001 01:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
> Just a little note, anytime that you have a bigger oil pan, it is
> better. You have cooler oil, and a larger reserve.

Agreed. I'm running a 10 quart Aviad road race pan in the Pantera
and it's very nice (gates, baffles, scraper). One of the guys in
the club took a bone stock Pantera, slapped a set of slicks on it,
and was able to pull 1.1 lateral G's, enough to slosh all the oil
away from the pickup and wipe out the bearings. A guy down the
street wiped out the 428CJ in his Midstates Cobra replica, after
road and drag racing at Run and Gun. He was running a stock oil
pan.

I've gotten 140K+ miles out of the '87 Mustang GT on the stock oil
pan with no problems but I've got the suspension worked over well
enough now that I'm starting to worry. Adding the supercharger
won't help any, I'm sure.

>As well you should be Tim.

Heh, heh, heh.

>sorry guys, just had to see if it would work, BTW what do you
>think of my baby??

Very nice and subtle. I wish my brother's taste were as good.
He has two Mustang coupes, a '67 and a '69 and both are orange
with vinyl roofs. Blech!

Dan Jones

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I65Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 6239
From: Folsom, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-14-2001 07:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
As well you should be Tim.


Just rub it in why dont ya .

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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