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Author Topic:   Solid or Hydraulic?
MDF99
Gearhead

Posts: 232
From: Hamilton, Ohio, USA
Registered: May 2001

posted 12-03-2001 08:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MDF99   Click Here to Email MDF99     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I need to pick a non-roller cam for my 289. I'm going with aluminum heads, 10.5:1 compression, airgap intake, Holley 650 double pumper, headers, T-5 tranny. I'm building up this 66 Mustang to be a fast street car. I'll be making some passes at the strip on street tires to see what it'll do though.

I'd like to hear what you have to say about mechanical and hydraulic cams, the pros and cons of each. How often do you reset the valve lash with solid lift cams? I've read about it and it doesn't sound like too bad of a chore. What are your experiences with solid and hydraulic cams. What do you run YOUR car? Thanks much!!

MDF

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 777
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 12-03-2001 09:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've had a solid in the past but I'd go with hydraulic for a mostly street car, unless you like adjusting the valve train. The advantage offcourse is that you will have more horsepower.

I went hydro roller with my most recent combo but I have heard I could gain 30hp with a solid.

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MDF99
Gearhead

Posts: 232
From: Hamilton, Ohio, USA
Registered: May 2001

posted 12-04-2001 12:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MDF99   Click Here to Email MDF99     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have no experience with solid lift cams. I'd like to get the extra HP, but don't want to be under the hood all the time either. With a solid cam, what exactly would I be dealing with? Thanks for any help!

MDF

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-04-2001 11:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Matt,

I "lifted" this from BadAssRacing's website, it's the truth and will save me some typing. Melissa's 351w runs a solid cam and its lash hasn't changed a bit in 20,000 miles. Also, you never have to worry about a hydraulic lifter pumping up.

{Solid lifter cams are always a good choice for a hot street or race engine. They usually have faster ramps (lobes) than hydraulic cams but not as fast as roller cams. They also usually need a stouter spring than a hydraulic cam but not nearly as stiff as a roller cam. They're kind of the middle of the road between the two. Forget about those lame wives tales about solid lifters always going out of adjustment! That's just not true! The ONLY way the adjustment (lash) can change is if something is either wearing out or going bad, period! If a rocker stud starts pulling out, the lash will increase. If the tip of the valve is getting hammered or mushroomed, the lash will increase. That's what lash caps are made for. If the tip or the cup of the rocker arm starts to wear out, the lash will increase. If a push rod bends or wears out one (or both) of the tips, the lash will increase. If the lifter is getting cupped or the cam is going flat, the lash will increase. If a valve seat "sinks" or recesses, then the valve is actually lifting or sitting higher, the lash will decrease. No matter how you slice it, if a solid lifter cam keeps going out of adjustment, something is seriously wrong! Most of the time it was just a wives tale being spread by someone who's probably never even ran a solid lifter cam or had a piece of junk engine that was falling apart.}


SteveW

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 25883
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 12-04-2001 11:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Solid! See add in the classifieds forum.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-04-2001 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex,

That's a great cam and deal!

SteveW

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2419
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-04-2001 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like solids. A flat tappet solid with an intake duration of around 236 degrees will spin the engine up around 6500 rpm with your Air Gap intake and 650 double pumper... How high do you want to spin the engine?

If you don't want to spin the engine any higher than 6500, installing a cam larger than what I listed will only kill off the low-end and midrange power. For best results, use around 236 on the intake, slightly more on the exhaust, and a lobe seperation of around 110 degrees with the dual plane. The engine should pull really hard from around 3500-6500rpm, yet still pull just fine from around 1500rpm.

Here are some excellent lobes to choose from. They are new, modern lobes that Comp Cams is using to grind their upcoming Extreme Energy solid lifter cams from. They are the "XTQ" lobes. Pick your intake and exhaust lobe, and call Comp and have them do a custom grind for you. They don't cost much more than off the shelf units.

http://www.compcams.com/catalog/233.html

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 777
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 12-04-2001 06:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think I had a problem with my motor when I ran a solid because it needed to be adjusted every month. That was my only experience with one and I never went back because of it. I never knew that it could go 20,000 miles between adjustment. If I had known that I might have gone with a mechanical roller instead of the hyro I'm using now.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-04-2001 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jazzy,

On a race motor you want to check them often, but when/if you find a tight one it's because a valve is sinking into the head. Loose ones are the result of valve train wear. With hydraulics you'll never know until it's too late.

SteveW

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chips67
Gearhead

Posts: 651
From: louisville, ky, usa
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 12-04-2001 07:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chips67   Click Here to Email chips67     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
with which cam combination can you make the most power under 6500rpm......a hydraulic roller setup, or a solid non-roller setup? i have a spare 302 block, but its not a 5.0 block so i cant run my hydraulic factory rollers, keep it or sell it and get a 5.0 block? i bet solid rollers are the best but i doubt i can afford them.

------------------
67 coupe, 650dp and rpm intake on 5.0 with afr 165 heads, 4 speed, 4.11's.....best so far is [email protected] in 1/8 mile with 1.79 60ft. time.

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MDF99
Gearhead

Posts: 232
From: Hamilton, Ohio, USA
Registered: May 2001

posted 12-04-2001 09:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MDF99   Click Here to Email MDF99     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm going with a solid lift cam. The custom grind sounds like an excellent idea. I don't plan to spin it higher than 6500 regularly.

The engine builder asked me if I wanted to go with main studs and a line hone, I think I will. He also recommended that I not use a high volume oil pump because it wastes HP and because stock oil flow is plenty and pressure is good too.

As for the custom grind, how does 236/240 D and .534/.544 L using the XTQ lobes sound? You guys are an incredible resource. I really appreciate it!!!

MDF

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2419
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-04-2001 09:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds good!

Just make sure to back it up with a good set of headers and a free flowing exhaust of at least 2.5" diameter. Flowmaster makes 2.5" mandrel bent tailpipes for $99 (mandatory) if you need tailpipes. Regular muffler shop tailpipes get crused down to nothing in making those bends up and over the axle. Don't use long mufflers, they don't give enough room for that first tailpipe bend.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 777
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 12-05-2001 05:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That grind is on the surface similar to the hydro roller I'm using. Mine is 238/248 .544/.572. It is working well in my motor. I'm making good power to about 6100 and shifting at around 6400-6500. I'm guessing your power band will be about the same.

quote:
Originally posted by MDF99:

As for the custom grind, how does 236/240 D and .534/.544 L using the XTQ lobes sound? You guys are an incredible resource. I really appreciate it!!!

MDF


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MDF99
Gearhead

Posts: 232
From: Hamilton, Ohio, USA
Registered: May 2001

posted 12-05-2001 06:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MDF99   Click Here to Email MDF99     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I ordered the solid cam today, dude at compcams talked me out of using the XTQ lobes for a mostly street car. The specs on it are nearly identical:

236/242, .536/.544, 108 separation, 4 degrees built in advance, 2250-6800 rpm range. Sounds like fun to me!!

MDF

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