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Author Topic:   351C Single Plane for street
Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 928
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-28-2001 09:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well following everyones advice, I'm dumping my offy/750AFB setup on my 372C.
Until I get the Roush inserts put in the heads, Im going to run a borrowed Strip Dominator and a new Holley 750 Annular discharge doublepumper to see how much power the engine is really capable of.
Any tips to keep as much low end as possible? 4-hole spacers? 1" or 2"?
Will my throttle linkage even work with 2" spacers? Is the Torker (I have one) with the heat pasages more streetable than a Strip Dominator?

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Jim Sams
'69 mustang Coupe
372C

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19686
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-28-2001 12:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A one inch four hole will give the most low end response. The Holley Strip Dominator makes pretty good low end as it is.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 32961
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 10-28-2001 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Torker {I have one too} really stinks for low end response.

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'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC

Recycle --- Restore a Classic Ford!

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 928
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-29-2001 08:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SteveLaRiviere:
The Torker {I have one too} really stinks for low end response.


Even with a 4 hole spacer?

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 32961
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 10-29-2001 05:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I never tried it with a 4 holer. Ironically, I had bought one, but never put it on before I put the car up. I'm sure it would have helped it.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC

Recycle --- Restore a Classic Ford!

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badazzcougar
Gearhead

Posts: 132
From: Seattle
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 10-30-2001 08:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for badazzcougar   Click Here to Email badazzcougar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I had a torker on my 70 cougar 351 C 4V and had zero low end torque. I mean ZERO ! thats wtih a comp cams 280 H and 9:1 compression. Ended up pulling the motor after only 5K miles to rebuild it for more lower end with a dual plane. I ran mid 12's on nitrous but it was miserable to drive on the street.

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70coupe
Gearhead

Posts: 346
From: Toronto,Ontario,Canada
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 10-30-2001 09:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 70coupe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I run the torker on my cleveland and mine seems reasonable out of the hole, 1.78 60'. Nothing to write home about but not bad. My guess with "badazzcougar" is the 9:1 compression was too low for a 280 cam. The 4 hole spacer will help. I personally would recommend the strip dominator then the Blue thunder dual plane followed by the torker.

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badazzcougar
Gearhead

Posts: 132
From: Seattle
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 10-30-2001 11:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for badazzcougar   Click Here to Email badazzcougar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I tend to agree with you. I bought the car 4 months ago with a fresh 351 C. It was a dog from day one though but I got a good deal on it so I figured I could do some future mods and come out ahead or at least where I wanted to be. Its originally a Q code 70 that is now home to a 351C . The guy who owned it previously was going in all kinds of directions and didnt have a good set plan on what he wanted the finished car to be like. I'll run down the list of how the car was when I got it...

1970 cougar Must have been stripped clean at one time. Nothing original on it. Not even worth buying the original 428 which was available as it was unrestorable without a HUGE cash outly. Besides that i am a bigger fan of the 351 C

351 Cleveland...1971 vintage CJ motor bored 30 over with flattop trw's . Roller rockers, 4 bolt mains, nodular crank, ARP rod bolts and main bolts, torker intake, open chamber 4 V heads, Compcams 270H cam, MSD billet distributor with 16 degrees mechanical advance, 750 vac sec carb.. Maybe 9 to one if that compression. Little or no lower end torque. 9 inches of vacuum ! wouldnt break the tires loose from a dead start. Low tension chrome rings I dont think have seated after 4000 miles. I had huge blow by problems for such a mild engine

This is where it gets wacky...


4.56 !!!! gears in a detroit locker 9 inch with currie axles... with that motor ?

C6 with a 5000 !!!!! stall speed converter !!!


Ran like sh it and louder than it should have been even with the flowmaster.

So I swapped the 4.56's for 4.11's, changed the 5000 stall converter for a 2500 stall, welded in a exhaust crossover and pulled the motor out last week to swap in domed pistons, a Lunati 000093 cam, changed the valve springs to double srings, and I installed a F351 intake . put on a demon 650 double pumper. I'm hoping its going to run a hell of a lot better than it did. I'd hope for mid to high 12's now whereas before i could only get that if I ran the nitrous which i dont like to do.

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70coupe
Gearhead

Posts: 346
From: Toronto,Ontario,Canada
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 10-30-2001 11:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 70coupe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That combo should be alot better than before. If the lunati cam is the one I'm thinking of its around .536 lift or so and is hydraulic. You might want to try the 750 carb again as the cleveland likes lots of fuel. What did you have it jetted at? I probably would have went with closed chamber heads and kept the flat top pistons and put in a solid cam but what your doing should work reasonably well. If you spin the motor over 5500 you'll find that torker that you put in the garbage will need to climb out of there and back onto the motor.
Good luck and let us know how it works out.
ps. remember to run good fuel, around 105 octane with that motor. The compression will be around 11-12:1.

[This message has been edited by 70coupe (edited 10-30-2001).]

[This message has been edited by 70coupe (edited 10-31-2001).]

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badazzcougar
Gearhead

Posts: 132
From: Seattle
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 10-31-2001 12:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for badazzcougar   Click Here to Email badazzcougar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The way Ive got it figured I'll have aproximately 10.2:1 compression with the TRW pistons. I shaved .100" off the dome with a wide head fly cutter on the mill and polished the piston surface. I would have gone with the closed chamber but I wanted the option of changing the heads later on for racing to the smaller conmbustion chamber. I can change a set of cleveland heads on the car in 4 hours or less so changing the heads and intake during a few weeks of the racing season to up the compression to 12.5:1 is completely reasonable. I know its got a sturdy bottom end but the thought of twisting it over 7000 RPM makes me cringe so I'll stick with the Lunati cam and at 224/234 and .536" and .562" its a stout stick. This is my daily driver for work and back by the way. For long trips I take the wifes escort. I can handle 92 octane mixed with some avgas ( 100 LL Avgas is damn near as cheap as premium unleaded these days ) .

[This message has been edited by badazzcougar (edited 10-31-2001).]

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 928
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-31-2001 08:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well yesterday I put on the strip Dominator. A friend helped and said "Hey lets try this re-built predator carb you have siting here too".
So we for giggles installed the predator too. I have run one before that worked OK but had a problem with the idle circuit.
The Predator/Strip Dominator combo made more power everywhere than the Offy/Edelbrock AFB combo I had. Very impressive. Note that this carb/intake combo will not fit under a flat hood. Barely clears my Boss 429 scoop.
Gotta try the Holley next....

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chris eck
Journeyman

Posts: 11
From: PalmHarbor Fl. U.S.A.
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 10-31-2001 09:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for chris eck   Click Here to Email chris eck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tryed to reply on this earlier didnt go thru.Lets see if this goes in ok, first.

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chris eck
Journeyman

Posts: 11
From: PalmHarbor Fl. U.S.A.
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 10-31-2001 10:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for chris eck   Click Here to Email chris eck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do you want to stay with that cam?Ran a lunati 560 lift,108 lobe,2500-6500rpm stick that would shake traffic 2 lanes away but had no low end for my open 4v heads.Stabbed in a 485 lift,272 duration with a 112 lobe.This thing now can melt the tires and pulls hard to 6000rpm not bad for a mild cam.Clevelands are hard to dial in depending on the cars weight,auto/manual,gears,which head your running etc.Keep on trying as long as your budget permits cause when you finally get it you will know why we keep spending our pay checks on clevelands instead of the 351w-393 crate motor,which is ok.

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 928
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-31-2001 10:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chris eck:
Do you want to stay with that cam?Ran a lunati 560 lift,108 lobe,2500-6500rpm stick that would shake traffic 2 lanes away but had no low end for my open 4v heads.Stabbed in a 485 lift,272 duration with a 112 lobe.This thing now can melt the tires and pulls hard to 6000rpm not bad for a mild cam.Clevelands are hard to dial in depending on the cars weight,auto/manual,gears,which head your running etc.Keep on trying as long as your budget permits cause when you finally get it you will know why we keep spending our pay checks on clevelands instead of the 351w-393 crate motor,which is ok.

The cam does idle rougher than a stocker but it's not completely dead on the low end. With the latest induction changes it has ample botom end. From my limited driving the Predator is really cool long term use will be the proof though. Unfortunately I broke the clutch cross shaft bracket on the frame rail when shifting into third on a moderately hard run....Gotta get an engine strap.

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