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Author Topic:   Launching a Stick shift..
bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 607
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 10-25-2001 08:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have just recently purchased a set of BF Goodrich DOT Drag radials and some Billet Centerlines for my '66 4-speed car and need some advice on launching.. This is the first sticky tires it has ever seen!! Don't laugh at my choice of tires, because I mainly purchased them for my occasional street cruises.. My street traction has improved 100%. I can actually push the pedal to the floor at normal rpms and feel acceleration instead of tirespin.. It's a wonderful feeling!!

I still have the temporary 9" 4.44 spooled rear end under it and the engine pulls good to 7000 rpms.. What I need to know is, when launching at say...4000-5000 rpms... After I bring the rpms up,
1.) Should I push the gas through the floorboard at the exact same time that I release the clutch??
2.) Should I release the new 10.5 " diaphagm clutch smoothly, or instantly?

Goin for broke!! Any ideas??

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 719
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 10-25-2001 10:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Congrats on the sticky tires... just don't expect any miracles from drag radials. Sure, they stick better than regular tires, but don't do really well with the shockloads launching hard with a stickshift generates.

You'll probably do best by taking off easy, then sticking your foot in it. Once they start to spin, they're up in smoke.

A "wrinkle wall" tire absorbs that shock load, and allows a MUCH harder launch. If you get serious about seeing what your car is really worth at the track, you'll need a set of slicks.

Have Fun!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 607
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 10-25-2001 10:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I didn't really think they would be as good as a true slick on the strip, but they sure are "SWEEET" on the street... I took off at a left hand turn with the peddle on the floor this morning and just about threw myself into the passenger seat.
Normally with the 10" street radials, it would just jump sideways and cause me to back off the gas and go into 2nd real easy...

[This message has been edited by bluestreek (edited 10-25-2001).]

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70 Pony
Gearhead

Posts: 1213
From: Glenmoore, PA, USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 10-26-2001 04:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 70 Pony   Click Here to Email 70 Pony     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Blue.....I ran the BFG DR's on my '70 with a C-4 and a limited slip diff.....
After about 4 to 500 miles they were slicks, but (not wrinkle walls)...don't know with the spool but with the LimSlip I knew I had to change them from side to side to keep the tread wear even...the left side was grabbing first and wearing first..
My guess, with the spool you're going to see mucho quick tread disappear. Keep in mind they have a tread wear rating of (0) ZERO....
But I loved them for street/strip duty and rode 'em 'til I saw steel...honest.

------------------
EDDIE D
Resto Mod '70 Sport Roof
Arrest Me Red

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 607
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 10-26-2001 08:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh good, that means the the tread patch should be just about right for the spring opening at the local track.. We have two more bracket Saturdays left at Atlanta then it's over for the Winter..

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cpmaverick
Moderator

Posts: 1256
From: Auburn, AL.
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 10-27-2001 02:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cpmaverick   Click Here to Email cpmaverick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I just got back from the track tonight after running my 275/50/15 BFG drag radials, and I am very impressed.

Here's what worked best for me:

15 psi, nice long burnout.

Launched at 6000 RPM, mashed pedal while releasing clutch. 1.91 60' time. (best on street tires 2.1)

My best tonight was a 13.07, previous best on street tires was a 13.94, although I think I could easily run a 13.7 on street tires.

But I'm not looking forward to putting the street tires back on, like you said, it hooks great!

I searched corral.net and other sites about launching with the BFGs, they seem to be really good, almost as good as wrinkle walls (they'll never be as good) and read there that several people have gotten 1.8 60" with them.

------------------
-Charlie Ping
1970 Maverick Grabber
[email protected]
Daily Driver
http://www.maverickgrabber.com

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Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 557
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-27-2001 03:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil   Click Here to Email Rory McNeil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think the drag radial work best with an automatic, with a smoother application of power. The jolt of a stick car leaving at any higher rpm, will likley shock them enough to spin. Nothing beats a real slick.

------------------
78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected]
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed [email protected]
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker under construction, 302 5 speed

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 719
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 10-27-2001 07:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From an econimic standpoint...

A set of slicks (or ET-Streets), used occasionally for racing, can last several years. A set of Drag Radials used full time (with much driving at all) will usually last one summer at best.

Moneywise, you're better off in the long run going with a real wrinkle wall drag tire for racing, and a regular tire for the street. Both initially cost about the same, but over time it adds up.

Another thing about drag radials... yes, they DO have a really soft compound, but that soft commpound is easily cut and sliced on rough or jagged terrain. So watch out for those road hazards! You'll get a lot more burnouts and better manners on wet roads with regular street radials.

A part time wrinkle wall mounted on an old set of wheels for part time use just makes sense. You're dollars ahead in the long run, and go faster at the track to boot!

I've seen where people buy Drag Radials for part time duty, but don't really know why... If a person wants a part time drag tire, get a real one! That is, unless you've got a new Cobra mustang that has huge brakes on the back that require 17" wheels... and slicks aren't available.

I guess if a person only drove a few miles a year and wasn't worried about tire wear they could afford to run drag radials as their normal tire and still switch to slicks at the track...

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 607
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 10-27-2001 08:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My '66 is only a weekend warrior and rarely gets out of the corral more than 5 or six times a month.. The tires I had on before were 9" Wide GY Eagle ST radials, and they were still practically new after 2 yrs.. I sold the tires and wheels to a friend to put on his Aerostar.. I bought a set of new Billet wheels for it and decided to get some decent traction while I was at it.. By the way, the road hazzards shouldn't be a big issue because these tires actually have 5 ply tread.. 2 ply polyester, 2 ply steel, and 1 ply nylon... Instead of a drag radial, it should have been called a Road Race tire.. The cars G-force and handling has drastically improved...

I also just recently installed a Pertronix Flamethrower coil to go with the ignitor, and my rpm limit has went from 6200 up to 7000+... The car will now do 120+ MPH with a 4.44 rear gear..!! What a difference a good coil can make. (I'll be glad to get my 3.50 trac-loc back in after this season is over..) Today I'm gonna finish doing my rear battery mount, that I have been putting off for yrs.. Then, all I need is a helmet, and we should be ready for a good shake down at Atlanta dragway next weekend..

Thanks for the replies guys,
DAN

------------------
'66 Stang with traction problem!!
289 320hp 4 spd 3.50 trac-loc
http://www.picturelist.net/Images/dbhard/1966.jpg

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cpmaverick
Moderator

Posts: 1256
From: Auburn, AL.
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 10-27-2001 12:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cpmaverick   Click Here to Email cpmaverick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Basically, I got drag radials because:

1. I figured I wasn't making enough power to justify real slicks anyway
2. I wanted to drive to the track (45 miles) with them, even if it rained
3. They were cheaper, and I'm poor

From what I've seen they are all the traction I need right now. I'm not running 11s or anything.

I've driven them in the rain and they are not bad at all. Certainly no worse than what I've seen with bald stock radials at times.

I have 500 miles on them now (only 10 1/4 runs) and they still look new. I don't know how you could wear them out so quickly unless its all 1/4 miles . A friend of mine has a 99 Z28 and he has 1100 miles on his BFGs and they look pretty good too. One of the biggest reasons I bought them.

They don't replace slicks they're just a good middle ground.

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 607
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 10-31-2001 11:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Finished with the rear battery box and also got a good set of Napa HD hydraulic rear shocks(70/30).. They close very easily and extend very hard. I will be trying out my new combination this weekend if everything goes OK..

List of improvements after my base run of 13.85 @ 100 MPH

* Drag radials and Centerline Billets - was using steel wheels and street tires

* Flamethrower coil - 7000 rpms (up from 6200)

* 70/30 HD rear shocks - had gas charged 50/50

* Rear Battery mount - better weight dist.

* Removed 120 lbs of rear ballast - less weight

* Adjusted spark advance - 40 degrees total @ 3000 rpms ( was 36 degrees @ 4500)

****** I should see a little improvement!! ;D

------------------
'66 Stang with traction problem!!
289 320hp 4 spd 3.50 trac-loc
http://www.picturelist.net/Images/dbhard/1966.jpg

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 607
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 11-03-2001 06:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm off to Atlanta Bracket races today to try out my new setup.. Humidity is high, sky is cloudy, and temps should be around 70 degrees.

My bro-in-law (Mike) has a street 350 Nova with a automatic and 3000 rpm stall, 3.73 rear, and M/T Sportman Pros. We've had an ongoing competition now for years with our low budget street cars, trying to prove who is the quickest.. A lot of our family members will be there to witness the race so it's kind of special. The last time out he kicked my tail with a 13.65 1/4 mi. against my 13.80, but I wound up spinning my street tires wildly off the line and my engine topped out at about 1200 ft @ 6200 rpms.. Hopefully those 2 things won't happen again!!

I think it's time to open a can of Ford kick-butt!

Later,
Dan

------------------
1966 Mustang V8 Coupe (was 6cyl)
289 320hp 4 spd 9" 3.50 Trac-loc
http://www.picturelist.net/Images/dbhard/1966.jpg

[This message has been edited by bluestreek (edited 11-04-2001).]

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 607
From: Stanton, Michigan
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 11-03-2001 06:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ya know, Dan;
Ya gotta come back and tell us all just how far & fast your can of FoMoCo "Whip-As$" went!

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70 Pony
Gearhead

Posts: 1213
From: Glenmoore, PA, USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 11-03-2001 09:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 70 Pony   Click Here to Email 70 Pony     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's a great run with the DR's....and a nice 60' time....with the auto if I launch at more than 2200 RPM I just spin 'em...best 60' was a 2.01 and ran a 13.1 at 107 with "Lame" 3.55 gears.
Congrats......BTW I was running 17 PSI

------------------
EDDIE D
Resto Mod '70 Sport Roof
Arrest Me Red

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 607
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 11-04-2001 07:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, I was so close.. but it wasn't meant to be this time.. I started out out bad on my first run with a 2500 rpm launch and she bogged hard off the line with a 2.24 60' and crossed the line @ 14.18 @ 97 MPH..Mike ran a 13.70 @ 97 mph.. My engine just wasn't pulling hard.. I was really disappointed and I thought about it awhile between rounds.. I decided to switch to my Holley 390 DP and see if my carb was the problem.. On the next and final time trial, I backed into the water box, put it in 3rd gear, and dumped the clutch, and spun all the way to the staging lane..This time, I left at 3500 rpms and was rewarded with a 1.90 60'. and ran 13.81 @ 96 MPH.. Still not good enough. Mike ran 13.65 @ 97mph.. I wasn't happy with my mph so I decided to drop the timing back 2 degrees to 38..

I dialed in 13.70 in the first round of eliminations and ran 1.96 60', .527 react, with a 13.705 @ 98.2 mph and won easily.

2nd round, I dialed in 13.65 and raised my launch to 4500 rpms, and ran 1.87 60', 537 react, with a 13.63 @ 98.56. I won on a double break out. Mike lost the second round with a 13.55 on a 13.57.

3rd round, I dialed in 13.60 and was trying to raise my launch to 5500 rpms, but while I was looking at the tachometer, I lost my concentration on the tree and redlighted with a .306 react. I think I launched on the 2nd yellow, but not sure.. I finished the run off half-heartedly with a 1.90 60' and 13.60 @ 97 mph...

Mike bought back in for a round and broke out with a 13.44 on a 13.50, So he still managed to claim the quickest car..

I get one more chance next week to try to work on my launch technique.. The car is hooking up good with the BFGs and just maybe there's a little more left in the old 4 spd. Mustang..

------------------
1966 Mustang V8 Coupe (was 6cyl)
289 320hp 4 spd 9" 3.50 Trac-loc
http://www.picturelist.net/Images/dbhard/1966.jpg

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 3609
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 11-04-2001 02:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
oooh that 390 cfm carb is tiny!! put a normal Holley 600 vacuum on there and the thing ought to go past 6200.
Practice makes perfect as you are finding out... keep trying stuff to see what it likes is the best way to go faster. Once there seems to be no more gains left in it, then parts can be changed.

Tom

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 607
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 11-04-2001 08:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I figured you were right about the 390 DP.. It's really a circle track carb made for H.P. restrictions and is tuned to run at 7000 to 9000 rpms.. I went out and looked things over this afternoon and found something very stupid.. The gasket that I was using was cut to match a 600 Holley.. I took it off and matched it up to the 650 and found out the holes were wwwwway too small.

Sometimes when concentrating on the big picture, we overlook the little things..

More to come next weekend..

[This message has been edited by bluestreek (edited 11-05-2001).]

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 607
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 11-11-2001 07:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Didn't have much luck this weekend.. I managed 13.55 runs with 1.87 60'.. When I tried to launch over 4000 rpms, I started to get some weird hopping and slipping from the rear and my 60' times would drop back to 1.9s.. I think my old stock rear springs are "rolling up" when I hit it hard off the line.. The 650 DP felt like it was running out of gas in the middle of 1st and 2nd gear. Also, I was told that gas was coming out my rear gas cap on launch..

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 719
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 11-11-2001 08:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do you have a set of jet extensions installed in the secondaries of the carb? If not, get yourself a set of the "screw-in" style and make sure the rear float isn't adjusted too low.

Sounds like it's time for a set of some type of traction bar (if you don't already have a set).

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 607
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 11-11-2001 02:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll have get some jet extesions.. I'm already using a set of solid traction bars that mount directly to the spring perch clamps.. The tires only hop when hooking up real hard.. I'm always running into these weird problems.

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