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Author Topic:   Stainless Braided Line
JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 745
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-24-2001 03:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sorry if this is a newbie question but I don't know much about this stuff. It was always too expensive so I never used it.

Is it okay to use braided line all the way back to the fuel tank? Or should I run steel lines under the car and then braided line only in the engine compartment? Thanks.

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 10-24-2001 03:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On my racecar, I have braided all the way form tne cell to the pressure regulator up front. I dont think on a street car it would hurt either, after all, all the nitrous kits come with braided line to go from the tank to the motor.

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Dr. Who
Gearhead

Posts: 164
From: Redwood City, Ca.
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 10-24-2001 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dr. Who   Click Here to Email Dr. Who     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I run braid all the way on many cars, just put a shield wherever something could cut or poke a hole in it in case of an errant pieces misshap. NHRA requires a shield if the line (braid or hard line) passes the flywheel area on the inside of the frame. If you haven't worked with braid before there are some tips that'll make life much easier. I think we should have a thread just for the tips and tricks because Alex uses Earls without problems and I have had failures with his (Earls) stuff, the reason is probably in the way it's put together. We might be able to start a donnybrook .

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 745
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-24-2001 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks guys. The reason I'm asking is that I'm still using the 5/16" stock line and though I haven't experienced any problems(that I can feel) it seems that 3/8" might be more appropriate for my 347. Since I would need to do it again anyway I figured why not just go braided. I can get the line pretty cheap, it's the fittings that kill.

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 10-24-2001 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Who:
... because Alex uses Earls ....


Yikes

I have never had any luck with Earls stuff. I always use either Aeroquip, XRP or Russel.

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Dr. Who
Gearhead

Posts: 164
From: Redwood City, Ca.
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 10-24-2001 04:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dr. Who   Click Here to Email Dr. Who     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The DFI car I'm doing now will have -6 from the tank to the regulator, -6 is bigger than 5/16 but not quite 3/8. On low pressure carb type systems I use -8, not quite 1/2" but larger than 3/8. We used -10 on Butchers car because we run both the motor and the jug off of it and he has enough pump to keep it running forward even when the car is moving hard and trying to keep the fuel at the back.

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 10-24-2001 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have -10 from the cell to my regulator. And each float bowl has its own -8 line from the regulator. But since mine is on alcohol, it needs a lot of volume.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19686
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-24-2001 06:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Earls has two different qualities. They have a premium and an economy line (hose). I only use the premium stuff and never have any trouble. You get what you pay for. I have begun switching over to XRP fittings for fuel concerns though as they have larger openings and flow more. Nice stuff.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 745
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-24-2001 06:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll plan ahead because I really want more power so I'll go -10 from the tank to the front and then -6 to the injection.

That leads me to another question, Do you guys think the 5/16" is enough? My fuel pressure is at 17psi with the throttle body injection and it never revs past 6500. I can increase the fuel pressure up to 22psi. Why do it if I don't need it.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19686
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-24-2001 06:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Number 8 is plenty for an FI motor. Actually # 6 should do the trick. Number 10 is too much. You will loose too much pressure. What does the TBI require for pressure Jazzy? Is it a factory unit or the Holley aftermarket deal?

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 745
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-24-2001 06:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is the Holley 4bbl unit in my 65 on a 347 stroker. The fuel pressure needs to be set at between 15-22psi. The injectors are the 85 ppi units.

What I meant by more power was that I am planning a turbo small block and wasn't really sure about the fuel requirements. If -8 is enough then that is what I will do.

What I meant about the 5/16" was if you thought the stock 5/16" metal fuel line was enough for my 347. Thanks


quote:
Originally posted by Moneymaker:
Number 8 is plenty for an FI motor. Actually # 6 should do the trick. Number 10 is too much. You will loose too much pressure. What does the TBI require for pressure Jazzy? Is it a factory unit or the Holley aftermarket deal?


[This message has been edited by JAAZZY (edited 10-24-2001).]

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19686
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-24-2001 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes Jazzy, I know for a fact that the 5/16 is TOO small for that size of an engine. The #8 will be plenty for the TBI unit. I like my fule pressure on the high side with FI engines. 22 would probably increase power some.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 745
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-24-2001 07:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The problem I have with raising the fuel pressure up to 22 is that the midrange gets a little too fat and the acceleration drops a bit though it still seems fine on the top. It doesn't have enough adjustability to let me turn down the midrange enough to compensate for the increased fuel pressure. That's why I settled on 17psi. There is nothing obvious to indicate that I need more fuel though.

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 745
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-24-2001 07:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
One more quick question. The fuel pump didn't come with threaded connectors. It has the fittings with the barbs for hose as does the tank. What type of adapter do you use to make braided line work on these?

Can I just peel back the braid a bit and put a stainless clamp on the end?

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MrXerox
Gearhead

Posts: 322
From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-24-2001 09:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrXerox   Click Here to Email MrXerox     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jazzy, could you not just swap out the barbed connectors on the TBI for AN fittings? should only cost ya about $10.00 and would look and perform much better with the braided lines. Also, How well does that Pro-Jection work on your motor? I used to have a hopped up chebby motor years ago that I put one of those 700 TBI's on and it did wonders for it...Seems as if the 900CFM model you have you be a bit much for that motor though...?

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Dr. Who
Gearhead

Posts: 164
From: Redwood City, Ca.
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 10-24-2001 11:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dr. Who   Click Here to Email Dr. Who     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do I understand correctly your using 85lb per hour injectors with low fuel pressure now? I'm on the page with Alex, higher fuel pressure will atomize the fuel better and shoot the mix into the airstream a bunch better. My injector guy suggested 36lb injectors for the 427 cube 351W and a high volume/pressure pump. It aint runnin yet so he might be wrong but he does many very fast cars herebouts so I'm settin it up that way. At 17 PSI with a 5/16 line your starvin that 347 IMO.

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 4780
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 10-24-2001 11:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Larry

Yeah , but that throttle body only uses 4 injectors. I know a guy with the Holley 4 bbl FI and he doesn't like it that much. He wants to convert to a differnt sequential FI arrangement.

I don't like running the braided line the whole way, its heavier than steel or aluminum line and because it's rubber hose inside it doesn't last forever.

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 745
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-25-2001 03:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Mr. Xerox,

I've already ordered the fittings for the TBI. It's the fuel pump where it seems like the fittings are part of the unit.

I like it. It's It was the only relatively cheap FI system available when I got it. Actually it is still the only one at around $1000. If it had just a bit more adjustability it would be great. The 700cfm would not have put out enough fuel for this motor. I believe it was only rated for 350hp. The 900cfm was rated at 450hp but Holley told me 500hp with a small block shouldn't be a problem. The new ones are much more adjustable.

Dr.Who,
Yup 85lb injectors but only four of them. The max fuel pressure is 22psi and the min. is 15psi so I'm not that far off. If I could control the midrange a bit more turning it up would be fine. I don't actually notice any difference on the top end with it set at anywhere between 17 and 22psi.

Tom P.,
I wouldn't mind switching to the Speedpro system but it's all about money. I don't think the performance difference would be that great especially after looking at the cost. The next combo though will definitely go with a system like SpeedPro or Accel DFI. The problem is they both cost more than what I have now and that price only includes the computer, harnesses and sensors. That basically means a running setup is $4K and up.

Running steel lines under the car will save a lot of money, especially if there is no advantage to the braided.

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