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  Dumb ??? of the month....What is "Power Shifting"

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Author Topic:   Dumb ??? of the month....What is "Power Shifting"
70 Pony
Gearhead

Posts: 1837
From: West Chester, PA, USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 10-22-2001 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 70 Pony   Click Here to Email 70 Pony     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Keeping your foot to the floor thru the shifts......shifting at certain RPM levels..
Popping the clutch thru out the shift pattern ????? Combinations of all the above??
And by the way...since I am real new to this Modern stuff..and haven't owned a "STICK" since 1969 on my (NEW) 351 Fastback with 4 speed top loader...any ballpark RPM #'s for 1st, 2nd 3rd and 4th on this Tremec 3650 tranny.
The tach redlines at 5800..thanks...and hey !!! No wise remarks...I'm old, slow and senile...but have the brain of a 22 year old, but the reactions and body of a 55 year old...

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EDDIE D
Resto Mod '70 Sport Roof
Arrest Me Red

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Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 1614
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-22-2001 12:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil   Click Here to Email Rory McNeil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My version of "powershifting" is keeping the throttle mashed to the floor, during all the gear changes. Its worth a bunch of ET, & is much more consistent than "granny shifting" not to mention a helluva lot of fun! But, you better get it right, or a missed gear wide open at redline is a good way to "adjust" the valve angles! If you want to get the most out of your stick car, ya gotta do it! A T5 is easy to powershift due to the small light gears swimming in ATF, as are small imports(good practice material) I`m not familiar with Tremacs, but my old Toploader cars powershifted well, so I would think a lighter Tremac should be no problem.

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78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected]
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed [email protected]
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker under construction, 302 5 speed

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-24-2001 11:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rory is correct. Power shifting is pulling the gears full force at wide open throttle and never lifting off of the gas. The best method of practice that I teach it to roll long at part throttle (approximately 3000 RPM) and pull and push the shifter. Do this repeatedly and you will master the technique. The better you get the higher RPM you can practice at.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
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70 Pony
Gearhead

Posts: 1837
From: West Chester, PA, USA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 10-24-2001 05:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 70 Pony   Click Here to Email 70 Pony     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SECOND DUMBEST QUESTION.......
TOUGH ON THE CLUTCH.......??????
GUESS SO.......

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EDDIE D
Resto Mod '70 Sport Roof
Arrest Me Red

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Moneymaker
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Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-24-2001 06:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nope, not tough on the clutch usless you miss a gear Eddie.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 801
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-24-2001 06:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tough on the tranny though. Even done perfectly you mash the gears pretty hard. I do partial powershifting when the need arises . Basically I partially release the throttle. Just enough to let it shift smooth. I'm sure it costs me a couple tenths but I'm not a pro so it doesn't matter anyway.

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Moneymaker
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Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
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posted 10-25-2001 12:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you can drive and don't miss gears the trans will live a long life. It's the missed shifts that hurt it.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
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Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 1614
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-25-2001 03:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil   Click Here to Email Rory McNeil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Alex was right on there. I`ve been powershifting my supposedly weak T5 in my street Fairmont for 6 years now. Have had NO trans problems at all.Yet, I`ve seen other guys with slower cars break several of them.Ya gotta have the right touch.

Oh, by the way, I`m still using the same OE clutch I put in 6 years ago ,too.
In addition to regular dragstrip outings,this is also the only street car I own, It gets me to work, the dogs to the park, grocery shopping etc. If my Mother In Law hadn`t offered her air conditioned Crysler for the trip, the Fairmont would have made the long drive from Canada to Los Angeles, & the M&M meet in Reno.

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78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected]
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed [email protected]
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker under construction, 302 5 speed

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-25-2001 04:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I shift up on my dirt bike without using the clutch, is this the same?? i.e. no clutch
(please excuse my ignorance).

Paul

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2694
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 10-25-2001 06:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You DO use the clutch. You just make it fast.

Not using the clutch would tear all kinds of stuff up.

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Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 3720
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 01-22-2004 06:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68   Click Here to Email Fastback68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Many's the time I've shifted up on bikes without using the clutch. You can't do it on all bikes and you can't do it at all speeds. Lightweight two strokes with close gear ratios, like offroad bikes, really don't seem to mind.

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ukracer
Gearhead

Posts: 166
From: South Wales UK
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 01-22-2004 07:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ukracer   Click Here to Email ukracer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bikes all have dog boxes, that's why you can shift without the clutch. I frequently shift clutchless on my '72 Commando by just rolling off the throttle a bit. Just takes bit of 'finesse' do make it sound seamless.
Tried powershifting my 351 once, never again. The 'bang' it made at each shift worried me. I had already exploded one toploader with a 289 so............
Cheers, Martin.

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Kellxr7
Gearhead

Posts: 679
From: Canada
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 01-22-2004 08:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kellxr7   Click Here to Email Kellxr7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What is double clutching?

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Fastback68
Gearhead

Posts: 3720
From: Sucat, Paranaque, Philippines
Registered: Jul 99

posted 01-22-2004 08:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fastback68   Click Here to Email Fastback68     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think you mean double declutching. I can explain it but it makes my head hurt just remembering the time someone explained it to ME If no one with a way with words pitches up soon, I'll give it a whirl!

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 2289
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 01-22-2004 09:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't claim to have a way with words, but I'll give it a whirl....

The way I understand 'double clutching' is that it's done between shifts - usually necessary only because you have a clutch/trans problem:

1) you depress the clutch to take the trans out of gear, (leaving the shifter in the neutral position) then release the clutch pedal.

2) you depress the clutch pedal again and place the shifter into the next desired gear location, then release the clutch pedal again.

Ryan

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 26813
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 01-22-2004 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kellxr7:
What is double clutching?


For and actual visual explanation...
Watch the movie Bullit. Almost every shift Steve McQueen made was double clutched.

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Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator

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68 S-code GT
Gearhead

Posts: 2962
From: Sayreville, NJ, US
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 01-22-2004 09:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 68 S-code GT   Click Here to Email 68 S-code GT     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kellxr7:
What is double clutching?

That?s when you depress the pedal to take it out of gear, let off of the clutch, give a little rpm, depress the clutch again, shift into gear and then let off the clutch again. On older stuff you have to do this because the gears aren?t synchronized.

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trashline
Gearhead

Posts: 1812
From: Levittown, Pa
Registered: Dec 2003

posted 01-22-2004 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for trashline   Click Here to Email trashline     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hmm im sporting a 3 speed that the first gear isnt synchronized and it drives fine. would it drive better if i "double clutched"? well shift better i mean? i think its time to shift over to a v8 three speed anyway. sucks trying to shift into first when you coming up to a green light at a slow roll.

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Kellxr7
Gearhead

Posts: 679
From: Canada
Registered: Mar 2003

posted 01-22-2004 11:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kellxr7   Click Here to Email Kellxr7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thankyou for the explanation on the double clutching, So I can assume that my buddy was talking out his a$$ when he tells me when he races his 01 mustang gt he always powershifts & double clutches? It seems kinda impossible to do both at the same time, plus double clutching wouldnt be necessary on a T5 would it?

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Ryan Wilke
Gearhead

Posts: 2289
From: Stanton, Michigan 49707
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 01-22-2004 12:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ryan Wilke   Click Here to Email Ryan Wilke     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kellxr7:
Thankyou for the explanation on the double clutching, So I can assume that my buddy was talking out his a$$ when he tells me when he races his 01 mustang gt he always powershifts & double clutches? It seems kinda impossible to do both at the same time, plus double clutching wouldnt be necessary on a T5 would it?


Kellxr7:
...I'm trying not to get a visual going on as to what it looked like when your buddy was talking to ya...

...butt (pun intended), yeah, I'd say you're right about him & about performing the two procedures at the same time.

Ryan

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Red65
Gearhead

Posts: 115
From: Northglenn, CO, USA
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 01-22-2004 12:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Red65   Click Here to Email Red65     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Your friend may be correct. You want to powershift on upshifts, and double declutch (rev match) on downshifts. The attached link is a good reference for down-shifting.

http://www.318ti.org/notebook/shifting/index.html

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FiveOFastback
Gearhead

Posts: 110
From: Bethlehem, PA, USA
Registered: Nov 2003

posted 01-22-2004 01:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FiveOFastback   Click Here to Email FiveOFastback     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Powershifting is a great skill to be learned or have learned. When I do it I usually "side step" the clutch in each gear because the spring action of the clutch is always faster than your leg and foot. Always remember though, the 2-3 shift is the most missed shift, practice it well. Just my 2cents.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 9489
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 01-22-2004 09:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
HI Eddie!

Good to see you posting! What are you going to powershift?

SteveW

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Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 1614
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-23-2004 02:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil   Click Here to Email Rory McNeil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The only time I ever heard anybody use the words "powershift" and "double clutch" in the same sentance, was one of those riceboy goombahs in "the Fast & the Furious". Just one of many,many ridiculious statements made in that show. Right up there with "my father was killed in turn one of a Pro stock race!!"

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78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected]
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed [email protected]
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker 302 5speed. [email protected]
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd

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Buster
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Posts: 1553
From: Hurricane alley
Registered: May 2002

posted 01-25-2004 06:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Buster   Click Here to Email Buster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What I do for the 2-3 shift, when power or speed shifting, is imagine making the shift in your mind before hand, where 3rd really is before you actually make the shift. Kinda like a dry run in your mind. I do this dry run while I?m winding out 2nd gear, I picture the ?feel? of hitting 3rd in my mind.

I find this works very well for me, although I?ve been known to be a little unconventional.

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Rory McNeil
Gearhead

Posts: 1614
From: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-26-2004 12:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rory McNeil   Click Here to Email Rory McNeil     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I learned how to "double clutch" back in the early 70`s when driving my first car. It was a 57 Ford Sedan Delivery with a 272 ci "Y" block V8 with a 3 speed standard,non syncro low gear. It sucks driving uphill when you are stopping for a red light, & the light goes green while you are still rolling about 5-10 mph.You basically have 4 options: come to a complete stop, then put it into first( and pi$$ off the guy behind you) ,try to get rolling in second( and REALLY pi$$ off the guy behind you when it stalls!) grind the hell out of first by forcing it in(and hearing the guy behind you laugh at you!),or learning how to double clutch!!

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78 Fairmont 428 4 speed [email protected]
80 Fairmont 302 5 speed [email protected]
85 Mustang NHRA Stocker 302 5speed. [email protected]
59 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 2 dr sedan 332, auto
74 F350 ramp truck 390 4spd

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