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Author Topic:   Got the heads flowed today
Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-18-2001 04:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Got my welded port 4V's flowed today, Intakes are now 305CC, Exhausts 170CC. Results are ([email protected]"):
Lift / In / Ex
0.1" / 61.1 / 48.93
0.2" / 136.7 / 92.56
0.3" / 192.6 / 131
0.4" / 228.7 / 154.3
0.5" / 261 / 173.1
0.55"/ 276 / 178.9
0.6" / 287.1 / 185.5
0.65"/ 298.6 / 189.9
0.7" / 308.1 / 191.2
0.75"/ 300.2 / 195.9

With a bit of luck I'll reach my goal of 500HP.

Paul

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-18-2001 06:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those results were at 25". So @28" =
Lift / In / Ex
0.1" / 64.77 / 51.87
0.2" / 144.9 / 98.11
0.3" / 204.2 / 138.9
0.4" / 242.4 / 163.6
0.5" / 276.7 / 183.5
0.55"/ 292.6 / 189.6
0.6" / 304.3 / 196.6
0.65"/ 316.5 / 201.3
0.7" / 326.6 / 202.7
0.75"/ 318.2 / 207.6

even better

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MrWesson22
Gearhead

Posts: 1203
From: Dacula, GA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 10-18-2001 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrWesson22   Click Here to Email MrWesson22     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those flow numbers are great... That's pretty much exactly what I'm looking to get out of my heads (70 4V). If you don't mind spending a little time responding, what exactly did you do with the heads, and how many hours would you say you have invested in them total?? Thanks a bunch!

------------------
Neal
Member #723
[email protected] AIM: MrWesson22

69 Gulfstream Aqua Grande
351C/Toploader 4sp

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-18-2001 08:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No problem Neal, I cant respond until I get home tonight (Australian time). But will go into as much detail as I can. (and post pics)

Paul

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 10-18-2001 09:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those are some really nice numbers Paul.
That's what is nice abouit a filled intake port. You dont have that huge jump in flow numbers. My heads that arent filled go from 155 cfm @.200, to 227 cfm @.300, all the way to 279 cfm @ .400.

With increases that dramatic, it tneds to make turbulence in the port. Before I lost access to a flow bench, I was just starting to play around with puttying up an intake port. My first attempt showed promise, but then the guy moved and took his flow bench with him.
My numbers were pretty similar, just not quite as good as yours.

lift/ cfm @28"
.200 141.2
.300 202.64
.400 256.28
.500 292.04
.600 306.88
.700 322.56

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-19-2001 06:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just tesing a pic (forgotton exactly how to post them)

[This message has been edited by Clevo377 (edited 10-19-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Clevo377 (edited 10-19-2001).]

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-19-2001 07:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I'm PISSED OFF . Spent two hours getting a reply together, sorted out the pics. Put the whole thing together and it was rejected because I had too many pics. Okay, no problem, I'll take a couple out. WRONG. Lost the f%$#&%g lot . There is now NO reply (sorry Neal). Guess I've learn't to do long replies in Word from now on. But for now F#%$&#g

Paul

Maybe tomorrow

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MrWesson22
Gearhead

Posts: 1203
From: Dacula, GA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 10-19-2001 07:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrWesson22   Click Here to Email MrWesson22     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sorry about that, Paul. I really appreciate you going to all this effort. There's no hurry, I haven't even pulled the heads yet, so it's going to be a while before they get to Iowa and they get started.

------------------
Neal
Member #723
[email protected] AIM: MrWesson22

69 Gulfstream Aqua Grande
351C/Toploader 4sp

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 32961
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 10-19-2001 06:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Clevo377:
Well I'm PISSED OFF . Spent two hours getting a reply together, sorted out the pics. Put the whole thing together and it was rejected because I had too many pics. Okay, no problem, I'll take a couple out. WRONG. Lost the f%$#&%g lot . There is now NO reply (sorry Neal). Guess I've learn't to do long replies in Word from now on. But for now F#%$?g

Paul

Maybe tomorrow


Or put the pics in multiple post. I think the UBB system limits posts to eight images. {I can't change that.}

By the way, you didn't really lose them, if you would have hit the 'Back' icon, the posting window would have returned. Sorry for the hassle.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC

Be American, Drive American!

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 10-19-2001 09:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unshrouding the back side of the chamber by the intake valve really helps low lift numbers. It might increase the cc's a little, but it really helps the flow.

If I had a digital camera I would take a few pics and send them, but I'm too poor to have one of those new fangled thingeys

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 928
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-20-2001 09:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by kid vishus:
Unshrouding the back side of the chamber by the intake valve really helps low lift numbers. It might increase the cc's a little, but it really helps the flow.

If I had a digital camera I would take a few pics and send them, but I'm too poor to have one of those new fangled thingeys


By the back side, I assume you mean the plug or exhaust side of the chamber?

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 10-20-2001 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mpcoluv:
By the back side, I assume you mean the plug or exhaust side of the chamber?



Nope, actually if you use the plug as 12 o'clock, drop down to about 4 o'clock. They take and lay that area of the chamber back with a 40 or 45 degree cutter. It unshrouds that area by the intake valve a bunch. It pulls the chamber back and away slightly from that area of the intake valve.

My closed chamber heads had that done to them, then I polished the chambers and then we cut .025 off of them to bring the cc's down to 64.

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-20-2001 07:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve, I hit the back button but was given a blank reply window. (from what I remember)

Still have'nt re-done the reply yet, will do soon.

Paul

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-20-2001 08:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kid, with the unshrouding, are the cylinders notched as well, would this also help?

Paul

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-21-2001 08:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK

Firstly, this is only my second attempt at porting. What I?ve done is based on what I have read on the internet, and in a couple of books I have, so I make no claims of knowing exactly what I?m doing. Here goes:

The port floors were welded up to slightly higher than level with the short side radius, then ground down until about level. This was done to reduce the area and thus mathematical peak torque RPM to around 5500. The exhaust crossover was welded up and shaped as per the other exhaust bowls. The port roofs were ground out leading from the start of the port to the bowl. (Bowls were not enlarged at all ) Push rod bumps were removed as much as possible. The inlets neck down slightly to increase velocity leading up to the turn, while the exhaust area stays relatively uniform. The exhaust floor is flat and wide whilst the roof is rounded with the transition from the bowl roof to the port roof smoothed out (ground out the bump caused by the header bolt hole). The short side radii were left as high as possible to turn the flow well above the back of the valve, with the radii smoothed and rounded as much as possible. The guides were shortened and thinned leading in the direction of flow. Bowls were blended only with a minimal of material removed. Seats were blended into the bowls with care being taken to remove the minimum amount of material, thus leaving the slight venturi just above the seat. Chambers were blended into the seats and laid back slightly wherever possible. The heads have cc?d at 59 so removing a little material didn?t hurt (you have to grind out a fair bit to make up 1cc). The exhaust ports and the chambers were then polished. Some Z-spar epoxy was used on the inlets to fill any small inconsistencies in the floor, and blow holes left from the welding.







Paul

[This message has been edited by Clevo377 (edited 10-21-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Clevo377 (edited 03-19-2002).]

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Mpcoluv
Gearhead

Posts: 928
From: Charlotte NC usa
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 10-21-2001 08:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mpcoluv   Click Here to Email Mpcoluv     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How much would a welding job like that cost in the USA?

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1511
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 10-21-2001 09:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DAMN!

I guess one really good thing about the 351C, and it's overly huge ports... is that with enough griding and welding, you can make the ports look about however you want!

Hat's off... that's a LOT of work!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1511
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 10-21-2001 09:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For you 351C fans and Aussies... There are quite a few guys from down under at the www.fordmuscle.com forum. They are into 351C's, and one guy is on the verge of putting his car in the 8's. Many of these guys like the 2bbl heads (aussie), just heavily modified.

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1228
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 10-21-2001 10:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice work Paul.. Looks better than a chebby port to me!!

All you Cleve guys , don't forget the cylinder walls will cause some valve shrouding too. The more you can bore the cylinder, the better the head will flow once it's on the block.. Can you still get those HD Aussie blocks?

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 10-21-2001 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That looks real nice Paul.

Alos looks like alot more work than I have the patience to do.

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19686
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-21-2001 10:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice job on the heads Paul. I'm also happy that I am not the only shmuck who has problems with long posts getting rejected or blown out. Sorry that you also ohad problems.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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MrWesson22
Gearhead

Posts: 1203
From: Dacula, GA
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 10-21-2001 05:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MrWesson22   Click Here to Email MrWesson22     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow! It's obvious you have a lot of time/$$$ invested in those heads. The results look to be well worth it though. They look great!

------------------
Neal
Member #723
[email protected] AIM: MrWesson22

69 Gulfstream Aqua Grande
351C/Toploader 4sp

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-21-2001 07:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks a lot guys, it has been a lot of work but I've enjoyed doing it. I'm just glad I ended up with resonable flow results.

With the cylinders, I've only gone 030 over, should I notch them, and if so, how much??

Paul

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1228
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 10-21-2001 11:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The valve notch radius should be exagerated approx. .080 larger than the the original factory notch.. Try to keep a smooth transition between the comb. chamber notch and cylinder.. Judging from your good head work, you know what your doing, so I won't go into details..
Looks like your next job will be matching the inake manifold ports to those new head ports..

Have fun!!
Dan

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-21-2001 11:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Dan, My block currently has no notching at all (A 1982 Aussie block). I understand what you're getting at though.

Paul

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mach72
Gearhead

Posts: 122
From: Bixby, Ok. USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-22-2001 12:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mach72   Click Here to Email mach72     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those heads look great. As for the cylinder notching, I increase the size of the stock notches without making them any deeper. I just basically lay them back a little bit. Good luck, Tom

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