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Author Topic:   More cam questions
Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-01-2001 08:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If a set of 4V heads have had the ports made smaller (with similar flow) does the 106-108 LSA guideline still apply? I have the ability to pick whatever LSA I want and was wondering what to go for?

377C, 5.7" rod
7000 RPM (self imposed limit)
4V CC heads (welded up port floors, will flow as good as, if not better than stock.)
12:1 compression
Roller Rockers
ISKY 8005 springs
Ferrera single groove valves
Funnelweb 4V manifold
850DP Holley
2" 4into1 headers, 3" straight through system.
MSD6AL
Toploader
4.30 rear
26" tires
3500lbs

Paul

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1511
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 10-01-2001 10:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Clevo377:
If a set of 4V heads have had the ports made smaller (with similar flow) does the 106-108 LSA guideline still apply?
Paul

For the street (no nitrous) I'd go with a 108 LSA. For track use, around a 106.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19686
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-01-2001 08:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like the 108 myself.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-01-2001 11:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks guys, so, given I can choose any duration on intake and exhaust, what should I go for. I know in the past you have suggested between 245-255 on the intake. If I was to go for a 108 CL, what durations??

Paul

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19686
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-02-2001 02:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
240 to 252 is s nice range.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1511
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 10-02-2001 04:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Clevo377:
Thanks guys, so, given I can choose any duration on intake and exhaust, what should I go for. I know in the past you have suggested between 245-255 on the intake. If I was to go for a 108 CL, what durations??
Paul

As the lobe seperation gets tighter and tighter, it takes more and more duration to spin a certain rpm, since the powerband gets narrower with the tighter lobes.

You're right in the ballpark with intake duration... I'd probably shoot for around 244-249 (about what Alex recommends). As for the exhaust, probably about 8 more degrees. (especially if you aren't running open headers)

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-03-2001 12:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks again guys.

Paul

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-03-2001 06:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here are 4 profiles to consider. All are on an LSA of 108?. Any preferences???

244/254 (279/292) 0.611/0.659
244/253 (279/291) 0.647/0.687
249/258 (293/298) 0.618/0.628
250/257 (299/309) 0.621/0.647

Paul

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67coupe
Gearhead

Posts: 374
From: dallas NC usa
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-03-2001 10:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 67coupe   Click Here to Email 67coupe     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i know mines not a stroker but im running a comp 305h which is .585lift 253 duration with a 110 lobe sep.good luck

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1511
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 10-03-2001 11:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any of those should perform really well.. If you're really bent on spinning that stroker 7k rpm, the last two will be the best at getting there.

Are those roller cams?

If they are flat tappet cams with that much lift, you'll have a hard time getting much life out of the cam/lifters/ if there's much street driving planned.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1511
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 10-03-2001 12:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those cams are all pretty stout. Make sure you have the right springs for the job, and check the valvetrain geometry. Bad geometry with lift like that will wipe out a set guides pronto!

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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Moneymaker
Administrator

Posts: 19686
From: Lyons, IL, USA
Registered: May 99

posted 10-05-2001 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Moneymaker   Click Here to Email Moneymaker     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like the second one myself.

------------------
Alex Denysenko
Co-Administrator and Moderator
NHRA/IHRA/SRA member
NHRA and IHRA SS/LA National Record Holder '00 & '01
Fleet of FoMoCo products
Moneymaker Bio
US Class Nationals link

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-05-2001 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It has the highest lift, do you think the ramp rate will be much harsher than the others, or, is the difference neglegable?

Thanks,
Paul

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1511
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 10-05-2001 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Clevo377:
It has the highest lift, do you think the ramp rate will be much harsher than the others, or, is the difference neglegable?

Thanks,
Paul


It would still be nice to know if these are rollers or not... but looking at the specs, especially for the second cam, I'd say they probably are.

That being said... THAT much lift in only 244 degrees of duration makes for some SERIOUS valvetrain acceleration! ...which will call for some equally serious springs. Kid has had a hard time with excessive roller cams in the past, and might have a little experience to share. In the long run, you might be a little better off with a little less lift, and a bit more duration.... especially in a street car. A cam like that is not exactly "low maintainence".

The duration figures for all those cams seem in the ballpark. Personally, if you really want to rev the thing, the last two will give more rpm's, and do it more reliably. The second cam will be the torque king, but at the possible price of reliability. It will be a hard job for the springs to control it at high revs as well.... just toooo much valvetrain acceleration in my opinion, especially for a street car.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-06-2001 02:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike, they're all solids, and I really don't need any reliability problems

Paul

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1511
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 10-06-2001 09:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As a general rule, pushing over 0.600" lift with a solid cam on the street is asking for reliability problems. Your mileage may vary, but the spring pressures required to control a cam like that put a lot of stress at the cam lobe/lifter area, and require plenty of oil for lubrication. Since the cam lobes are only oiled from what is thrown off the crank, low engine speeds (street idling) don't make for good oiling to the cam. This is also the reason it is recommended to break a cam in at around 2500 rpm (and not at idle).

The duration sounds about right. Just be careful with the lift.

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-08-2001 09:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have gone with the last one (250/257 @108)

Thanks
Paul

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 4357
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 10-09-2001 04:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Clevo377:
Have gone with the last one (250/257 @108)

Out of that group of cams, that's the one I would have picked.

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-09-2001 09:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeh, It's similar to my previous cam, and within the range that the other guys (Alex and Mike) have suggested. It's also close to what Dyno 2000 suggested. I was originally going to go with a larger cam (264/264) but after considering all the advice, along with the fact that the heads have been port filled, and that the motor will only see 6800-7000 shifts occasionally at the track, have settled on 250/257.

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giddyup
Journeyman

Posts: 34
From: australia
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 10-11-2001 08:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for giddyup   Click Here to Email giddyup     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT FUNNEL WEB MANIFOLDS FOR CLEVO WERE 7000 PLUS?? OR HAVE A BEEN MISLED???

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 1511
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 10-11-2001 09:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by giddyup:
I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT FUNNEL WEB MANIFOLDS FOR CLEVO WERE 7000 PLUS?? OR HAVE A BEEN MISLED???

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2001/04/funnelweb/index.shtml

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/carbedstangs/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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Clevo377
Gearhead

Posts: 312
From: Blackburn, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-11-2001 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Clevo377   Click Here to Email Clevo377     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On my setup power levelled off at just over 6000. And looking at the review Mike posted, the story is the same.

Paul

P.S Welcome to M&M

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