https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/FordRearDimensions.html

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Originally posted by steve'66:
Check this chart first,

https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/FordRearDimensions.html

SteveW

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Good stuff there. How much should one cost?

P.S. this site rocks!! quick answers, good advice. Keep it up!!

If you do find a junkyard that has a lot of old stuff, any 57-59 full size Ford has a bolt-in housing for a 65-66 mustang. It's not the strongest housing in the world, but is easy and fits well.

It is an exact clone of the 65-66 housing, except it is a 9", and it's tubes don't neck down at the end where the U-bolts attach. It's 3" all the way to the flanges.

To install it, you just have to buy 3" U-bolts and drill out the bottom plates (or slapper bars, if you have that type) for the wider bolts.

If a 28 spline center section is used, you can even re-use the stock axles out of the 8". The original 65-66 mustang brakes bolt up too.

The spring perches on the 57-59 housing are VERY flimsy. I rolled them over (bent em') on the street with radials. They NEED to be boxed in by welding a piece of plate from the end of the perch to the housing. It's no big deal... just a metal plate a couple inches square (2 per side), that any muffler shop can buzz in there in no time if you don't have a welder.

One thing that DOES need address is driveshaft length. The 9" center section is a little longer than the 8". It also came with a variety of pinion yokes. (the part the driveshaft bolts to) There are four main types, a long wide one, long narrow, short wide, and short narrow.
The long one requires additional shortening of the driveshaft, and the wide unit requires a larger U-joint. The most common seem to be the large wide one and the short narrow. Just be aware of what you get.

Good Luck!

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Originally posted by 65_289:
Also, are there any ones that came w/ 31 spline axles stock

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Nothing came with 31 spline axles that will fit a 65-66 mustang. These have to be ordered aftermarket. Moser is a good supplier, and aren't that expensive.

As far as the center section is concerned, look at 1/2 ton 4WD trucks. Many of these came with 31 spline axles and traction lock units. Most have 3.50 gears. However, they are very hard to find in the boneyards anymore.

The 65-66 mustang (and 57-59 ford) came with the "small" housing ends.

If you decide to use 31 spline axles with small bearing housing ends,(axle bearing by on the end of the housing next to the brakes), you'll need to specify an O-ring axle bearing, because there is no room for an axle seal.

My advice... If you get an aftermarket housing, which cost around $300, and are very strong, go with the large housing ends. This will allow you to run a real axle seal, and upgrade to even larger 33 or 35 spline axles in the future... if the need arose.

Although the 57-59 units are great for the street, I eventually upgraded to an aftermarket housing after bending a couple of them on the strip using slicks and nitrous... I ordered an aftermarket housing with the small housing ends since I already had aftermarket 31 spline Moser axles with the small bearings.

Although I've never had a problem with leaks, if I had it to do over again, I'd have gone with the large housing ends. This would allow the use of a real axle seal, and the upgrade to larger axles... which might be a necessity once a better rear suspension and stronger engine are installed.

So far, the 31 Moser axles have been bulletproof.

Good Luck!

For tough duty, spend the $100 it takes to purchase a "Daytona" pinion support. The pinion support is the part that bolts to the front of the case. It is what the pinion rides in. The Daytona unit uses significantly larger bearings, fits any case, and increases load capacity by a large margin. Use the iron Ford unit available from Motorsport. The aftermarket aluminum units don't have the oiling holes that are necessary for regular street use.

As far as cases are concerned, standard cases are -fairly- strong, but I busted the caps off the back of one on a hard launch. Aftermarket cases are around $300, and are downright bulletproof. Original Ford "N" cases are a little stronger than the stockers, and can be found for $200 or so.

My current rear end consists of a Ford "N" case that I got for $40 by luck and a Daytona pinion support. I've used a full spool, and that's great for the track, but now use a Detroit Locker since my car sees a lot of street duty. I'm still not all that secure with the old case, and would like to have an aftermarket one.

4-speeds are TOUGH on rear ends when launched WFO with the nitrous on! Automatic equipped cars are much easier on things, and don't need as much overkill as their clucth equipped brothers. Shock loads are hell on the drivetrain.

Good Luck!

That is alot to digest. I am not going to be putting down much more than 300 at the wheels. I don't know if I need an aluminum case, Daytona support, etc.

Moser has axles for $145 a pair. If I bought a pair, and a completet 3rd member from Perogie/Currie, and got a housing, what else would I need? Could I re-use my brakes?

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Originally posted by 65_289:
I am not going to be putting down much more than 300 at the wheels. I don't know if I need an aluminum case, Daytona support, etc.

Moser has axles for $145 a pair Could I re-use my brakes?

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You should be fine with a standard case, standard pinion support, 28 spline axles, and any trac-loc as long as WFO launching on slicks isn't planned. To use the standard brakes, you'll just need to specify the factory "small" housing ends.

There are two different trac-locs... a 2-pinion and a 4-pinion. The 4-pinion unit is fairly stout and will take quite a bit of abuse.

Most aftermarket housings will have 3" tubes all the way to the end, so you'll need to purchase 3" U-bolts and drill out the bottom plates for the larger bolts.

The 57-59 housing should be fine as well as long as the spring perches are boxed.

Be aware that the driveshaft will need shortened.

Good Luck!

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Originally posted by n2oMike:
You should be fine with a standard case, standard pinion support, 28 spline axles, and any trac-loc as long as WFO launching on slicks isn't planned. To use the standard brakes, you'll just need to specify the factory "small" housing ends.

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So if 28 spline would be ok, then why bother switching out the 8 inch?

Also, I have some cheater slicks, and I will be launching those between 3k-4k. Once I get 4.11's, I will probably go to ET Drags or Hoosiers.

------------------
1965 Coupe, Tremec 3550, Steeda Tri-Ax, Cable Clutch conversion, 3.25 gears, Ford XB3 longblock, x303 heads, B-Cam, 9:1 comp., Ford Racing high-torque starter, Pertronix Ignitor & Flamethrower coil, Accel 8.8mm wires, 600 cfm Edelbrock carb, Edelbrock RPM intake, K&N air, Holley electric fuel pump & AFPR, dual 2-chamber Flowmasters, KYB shocks, 5-leaf springs, Chrome Export Brace, Griffen Radiator, Comp. Eng. subs.

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Originally posted by n2oMike:

The 57-59 housing should be fine as well as long as the spring perches are boxed.

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Originally posted by bluestreek:
I don't think my spring perches are boxed.. Is this a problem?

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It is if you have a 57-59 rearend you'll most likely have problems. No emergency though. They can be boxed with the housing still bolted in the car. Just make a couple rectangular steel pieces and have someone weld them in place. It will keep the ends of the perches from getting rolled over from axle torque.

Good Luck!

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Originally posted by 65_289:
So if 28 spline would be ok, then why bother switching out the 8 inch?
Also, I have some cheater slicks, and I will be launching those between 3k-4k. Once I get 4.11's, I will probably go to ET Drags or Hoosiers.

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The biggest weakness of the 8" is it's wimpy 2-pinion trac-loc unit. These are easily broken (and quite expensive). If a Detroit Locker is used... yes they are available for the 8", then it is fairly strong. BUT, it still has a weaker pinion support, case, and smaller main caps.

If much track time is expected, you will wanting to be launching the car harder and harder... Stepping up to a 31 spline 9" will allow you a lot of room to grow, as well as giving you peace of mind when you discover the 302 lack of lower end and midrange makes it want to launch at 5k-6k rpm.

Get a decent stock case (some have thicker caps than others), install a daytona pinon support, 4-pinion trac-loc or detroit locker, and 31 spline axles. This should allow you to launch the car as hard as you want. Mix with a decent housing and driveshaft, and you're off to the races!

A solid pinion spacer is also a great idea for any ford rearend that is going to be subjected to hard use. It's a major upgrade over a standard crush sleeve. It uses shims to set bearing preload. Highly recommended.

Good Luck!

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Originally posted by n2oMike:
The biggest weakness of the 8" is it's wimpy 2-pinion trac-loc unit. These are easily broken (and quite expensive). If a Detroit Locker is used... yes they are available for the 8", then it is fairly strong. BUT, it still has a weaker pinion support, case, and smaller main caps.

If much track time is expected, you will wanting to be launching the car harder and harder... Stepping up to a 31 spline 9" will allow you a lot of room to grow, as well as giving you peace of mind when you discover the 302 lack of lower end and midrange makes it want to launch at 5k-6k rpm.

Get a decent stock case (some have thicker caps than others), install a daytona pinon support, 4-pinion trac-loc or detroit locker, and 31 spline axles. This should allow you to launch the car as hard as you want. Mix with a decent housing and driveshaft, and you're off to the races!

A solid pinion spacer is also a great idea for any ford rearend that is going to be subjected to hard use. It's a major upgrade over a standard crush sleeve. It uses shims to set bearing preload. Highly recommended.

Good Luck!

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This is my daily driver that I am going to take to the track a few weekends a month, so I don't think I will be banging on it TOO hard.....

No one warned me (but I did go back and re-read my SSM traction bar instructions; where they DID "highly recommend" boxing the perches; which I failed to do) SO- I also learned the hard way -- with my 69FB w/ 302", 4-spd, old 9" slicks, without any power-adders, I wrapped up my rear end at the line,,, When I looked underneath, the driveshaft was in two pieces and the pinion was pointing straight UP at the trunk! ....Luckily, a friend at the track let me load my car on his trailer to get it home where I also found both my axles bent, leaf spring shackles bent, etc. totaling the repair costs to about $1100,....So don't be another broken parts statistic - there's no glory in it!! Spend the $35 and have the perches boxed - regardless of what housing or tires you decide to use!

I know what the parts can handle through experience. I've had good luck with engines, but have broken almost every other part in the drivetrain! The car has had 6-7 engine combos, several different clutches, several transmissions, a couple driveshafts, many many many rearends, and more than it's share of axles.

At around $100, the Daytona pinion support is a bolt-in upgrade. Simply substitute it for the standard one (along with the larger bearings) and be happy with your $100 insurance policy. If you are starting a new carrier from scratch, it's a very good idea.

The solid pinion bearing spacer (substitutes for the crush sleeve to adjust the pinion bearing preload) is a grand upgrade as well. It's cheap too at around $15-$20. When installing, you just crank the pinion nut as tight as it will go, and it doesn't change. Crush sleeves can get further crushed with hard use, and the bearing preload is lost... which is a bad thing.

Cases come in different flavors as well. Some have thicker caps than others. Some are made of superior iron. Most say to avoid the "WAR" case. The "WAR" is part of it's casting number. It's ribbed like the famous "N" case, but is supposed to be made from inferior iron. The best Ford case is the "N" case which stands for "Nodular". It's made from better iron, and has superior ribbing and bracing. Any standard "non WAR" case with the thicker caps should hold up to 95% of the cars out there. Bulletproof aftermarket iron cases are available for around $300.

The "Equaloc" is the predecessor to the "Trac-Loc". It too, is a clutch type limited slip rear. Trac-Locs came in 2-pinion and 4-pinion units. The 4-pinion trac-locs are actually way more common around here, and are close to twice as strong as the 2-pinion variety. They are a good choice in a differential as long as they are rebuilt with new clutches and springs. A car that sees a lot of track time will benifit from the sure-footedness of the Detroit Locker. There's no "one wheel peel" with this. It aggressively locks in and out. It's not good for a lot of driving on wet roads, however. It can be done safely, but you've got to get used to it. Suddenly applying the gas in a turn can make it "Lock", giving the driver a nice little thrill. A spool is the "bomb-diggity" for the track, but is not good at all for street use... been there, done that.

57-59 Ford 28 spline axles are the worst out there. If one of these housings are used, substitute the original 65-66 mustang 8" axles. They bolt right in and fit... and are WAY stronger. The stock mustang axles hold up fairly well, actually. Hard launches on slicks will dictate 31 spline aftermarket axles. I have zero complaints with the Moser axles that have been in my car for the past several years.

We've been over housings. If you use a standard Ford housing, box the spring perches. They WILL bend and roll under with axle torque... especially with good traction. 57-59 housings are especially wimpy. An aftermarket housing is extremely strong, and costs around $300.

My car has gone from stock, to a 13.99, to a 12, to an 11, and finally into the 10's. I've always launched it as hard as it would launch (redline) and have had to leave the car at the track on several occasions due to broken rears and axles. Take the advice or leave it. I just feel that if I can take 20 minutes to give out some information that will save others hundreds of dollars and many hours of grief and frustration, I've done my job. Most folks learn this advice the HARD way... me included.

There's never time to do it right, but ALWAYS time to do it again....

Good Luck!

Good Luck!

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Originally posted by bluestreek:
Mike or anyone else,
I just installed a rear center section with new 4.44 gears and a spool for the track, and I had a hard time getting the driveshaft to slide forward enough to get the rear u-joint out of the pinion assy.. The driveshaft and 9" rear is not original and I have always had a vibration that comes and goes.. Would this close fit of the driveshaft possibly cause the vibration or any other problems?? Any ideas..

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It could. The 9" center section is longer than the 8". It can also come with different length pinoin yokes. With the car's weight on the WHEELS, I believe there should be around an inch of slack. You might call a driveshaft shop to get a more precise measurement... but the DS should be easily removable.

A new DS (that is perfectly true and the correct length), along with new U-joints can do wonders for vibration. Make sure the bushing in the tailshaft is good as well. I believe the toploader piece is interchangable with the C4 auto.

Good Luck!

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Originally posted by chips67:
WHOA! are you talking about boxing the spring perches on the axle housing tubes? can i just weld pieces in?

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Yes, and yes

go to:
http://www.drag.race-cars.com/partbd/messages/3976.htm

Later,