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Author Topic:   Clutch ??? Help please!
steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-18-2001 05:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK, I'm puting the t-5 behind the 351w. The flywheel and 10" Centerforce dual friction clutch could use replacing. The tranny came with a 10.5" disc, pres plate, t/o brg. But they look like new stock replacement parts made in Korea. A freind of mine has a new 11" centerforce from his '67 Bronco sitting in his garage. The new bellhousing is a Lakewood, with a couple different starter mounting holes. And finally the question:

Can I use a 28oz balanced 11" flywheel and the 11" centerforce behind the 351w with a Lakewood shield and a t-5 (cable clutch)??? Will the stock starter work too?

Thanks very much in advance!!

SteveW

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-18-2001 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Little mor info,

The Lakewood scattershield is a #15203 for 83.5-93 mustang 5.0s w/t-5. There's no asterisk by it saying it can't handle a 164 tooth flywheel. Hayes has 164 tooth flywheels drilled for both 10.5 & 11" clutches. I'm not too worried about having a steel flywheel though as it's only a 12 sec car and it does have the shield around it. What do you stick racers think?


SteveW

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Doc
Gearhead

Posts: 466
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 08-18-2001 07:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Doc   Click Here to Email Doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just to be thinking outloud, if the car ran with the 3 + OD trans and a small (less rotating mass) flywheel/clutch and didn't kill the clutch I'd put the little clutch (fresh) back in it cause the 5 spd has better gearing and should be easier on parts.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-18-2001 07:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Doc,

I hear ya, but isn't more rotating mass at the flywheel better for the launch? Remember the old days when we'd run really heavy flywheels to keep the momentum up during the launch. Are those days long gone and am I a relic?
Probably

I've got the 10", 10.5", and 11" clutches layed out on the kitchen table and the 10" is a puny weakling!! LOL

I've added so much heavier stuff to this car lately, I'm sure it's gonna cost a mph or two. Let's hope the 5spd's gearing and heavier rotating mass can lower the et anyway.

Steve

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kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 3029
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-18-2001 10:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve, you want mass, I've got a C7TE flywheel from a 302 Bronco drilled for the 11" in the garage, seems like it weighs 100 lbs, just joking. I've also got a large bell and spacer plate if you wanted to do the conversion with out the scattershield.

Mike

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-18-2001 10:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike is it 164 tooth? If you wouldn't mind and it isn't too hard to dig out, what does it weigh? 30#s? What's the OD of it , as long as you've got it out. My buddy might have the flywheel with the centerforce, but if he doesn't.... Thanks Mike!

SteveW

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kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 3029
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-18-2001 11:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve,
This is gonna cost you, late night runs to the garage to dig in a spider infested corner, anyway I exagerated, it weighs in at 25 lbs on Beckys calibrated scales, I had to add her 10 lb fudge factor back in, no actually is does weight 25 lbs. The diameter over the teeth is 14 1/4 inches the clutch surface is 14 inches. Casting numer is C5AE-6280-E, steel stamped on the back side is the part number C7TE-A which converts to a 302 Bronco with an 11" Clutch. The plate hasn't been resurfaced so I measured the disc contact area, a true 11" patch. Anything else you need while I'm up

I forgot, its a 164 tooth

Mike

[This message has been edited by kcode (edited 08-18-2001).]

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-18-2001 11:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike,

Perfect!! Can you ship ups?
And thanks for fighting off those spiders!
Now I just need to know if it'll work.


SteveW

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-19-2001 03:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike,

Are you sure about 14.25"s? If it is, it won't fit the bellhousing. The 10" flywheel is 13.25"s and I assembled it and tried to run a 1/2" dia socket all the way around and it won't clear in a few spots. I'm looking at this new (free) dual friction Centerforce clutch that I don't think I'm gonna be able to use! It's driving me nuts.

What should I do? I could just put the worn 10" Centerforce back in, but then I'll be doing this again this winter. Or I could spend a bunch of my daughter's money and buy 10.5" steel flywheel and a new racing clutch assly. If I do go with a 10.5" flywheel, which application will have the correct 28oz balance? What do you think?

SteveW

[This message has been edited by steve'66 (edited 08-19-2001).]

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kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 3029
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-19-2001 10:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve,
While you have it apart, do it right the first time. Seems like I heard you say that before. I'm surprised that the Lakewood wouldn't clear the 164 tooth. But then again I'm not. Using the large bell in a 65 does make a tighter fit.

I'm putting the Motorsport billet steel on the new motor M-6375-A302, 157 tooth 28.5 oz.
Motorsport catalog say it comes with a 4" bolt on weight. The one I got from Alex/Kuntz did not, but had a series of balance holes drilled in the perimeter opposite of where the weight sould have been. Still, when the 347 was balanced, they had to weld in plugs in two of the balance holes. The Prorace harmonic balancer was untouched. (Exactly the same as Summit brand) Check with Summit or Jeggs on their flywheels. Both sell Motorsport.

Mike

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n2oMike
Gearhead

Posts: 2419
From: Spencer, WV
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 08-19-2001 10:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for n2oMike   Click Here to Email n2oMike     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess you got my email reply... If the BH is set up for a 157 tooth, the starter placement will be wrong if you manage to stuff a larger diameter 164 tooth unit in there. Go here for a T5 changeover article. Clutch linkage and clutch TYPE (diaphragm vs. long) will also need addressed. The pressure plates mount differently.

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/09/t5swap/index.shtml

Good Luck!

------------------
Mike Burch
66 mustang real street
302 4-speed 289 heads
10.63 @ 129.3
http://www.geocities.com/motorcitymustang/cmml/cmml_mburch.html
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/healey/367

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TomP
Gearhead

Posts: 5761
From: Delta BC Canada
Registered: Dec 99

posted 08-20-2001 01:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TomP   Click Here to Email TomP     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd think the flywheel ought to fit if the scattershield has both sets of starter mounting holes.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-20-2001 02:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks guys,

I called Lakewood this morning and the bellhousing will take the 164t flywheel. It will be close and I'll have to center the housing with a dial indicator (good to do anyway). The block plate has both sets of starter holes. So the flywheel is ordered along with all the other stuff. Should be running again next weekend with a 11" dual friction clutch.

SteveW

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 08-20-2001 03:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just for a little info here, I used to run a Prorace balancer also. I had a motor built and balanced using it and they had to move the weight on the flexplate also. When I changed pistons, and changed to an ATI Super Dampner, they had to move the weight back to the orginal position.
I never had any problems with the Prorace unit, but I think their balance is off a little from "normal" factory specs and that is why the flexplate needed altered.
Just my opinion.

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kcode
Gearhead

Posts: 3029
From: alvaton,ky,usa Suburb of Bowling Green, M&M #79, MCA #29208
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-20-2001 10:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kcode   Click Here to Email kcode     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kid,
Whats irritating is that the shop had a Summit Chevy balancer on the shelf and I compared the two. I assumed that Prorace manufactures their own in Australia, but when compared to the Chevy the markings were exactly the same. Same construction and engravings other than Brand names. The only thing different is about $100 in price

Mike

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 08-20-2001 11:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's a conspiracy!!

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