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  Freshening up the 351w ???

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Author Topic:   Freshening up the 351w ???
steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-05-2001 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
OK,

It's been over a year, 200 passes, and 15K street miles. The 351w smokes when it's decellerating, still running strong as ever, still has 175# compression in every hole. But it's using oil, and I suspect valve seals & or guides. The heads are Edelbrock RPM complete heads installed "out of the box". Anyone know what valve seals Edelbrock used on these heads? Shouldn't the bronze guides last longer than this? Should I upgrade the springs while I'm at it? The car is getting a 5 speed tranny, scatter sheild, and cable clutch while it's down. Do you think I should step up to a bigger cam? Currently a 282S Comp cam. What about porting the RPM heads, any advice there? The car should be consistently in the mid 12's with the 5 speed, and 12.0 is as quick as we want for now. But as long as I've got the engine out, we might as well step it up a notch. TIA for your tips!

SteveW

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 08-06-2001 11:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Don't forget about intake gaskets... They can pass a lot of oil from the valley to the intake floor if sealing has deteriorated.. Especially under high vacuum conditions..
As for a cam.. I think a small step up to a 288-290 dur. with a tight lobe seperation would be a nice improvement on a streetable 351W.. Depends on your idle conditions with your current cam.. If you have smooth idle conditions, I'd say step up..

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-06-2001 12:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
bluestreek,

The oil is mostly on #6 & #7 cylinders, and the smoke is from the that (driver side) exhaust pipe. Could be the intake gasket, I'll check that out. Thanks for the thought,

SteveW

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 777
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-06-2001 03:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know you value the daily driver aspect of your 66 so I'm not sure that a larger cam is a good idea. What about a roller that is a bit larger? I know it isn't cost effective but this nw motor is the first roller I've had and it sure revs up more smoothly than what I remember from my other motors.

I don't think a small amount of porting would hurt. I would probably look at flow around the cams sweetspot rather than peak flow. If you can get a little more torque and Hp in the middle of the curve your times should come down without sacrificing drivability.

I have a fairly large cam in my new motor. It still doesn't seem too large to me. I think if my car was a little more quiet I could use it as a daily driver(without stop & go traffic) once all the bugs are worked out.

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I65Stang
Gearhead

Posts: 6239
From: Folsom, CA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-06-2001 07:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for I65Stang   Click Here to Email I65Stang     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are you still worried about keeping it daily driveable now that she has the other car and you have a trailer?

------------------
Tim

M&M Member #35
1965 Mustang coupe, 200 I6, Holley 2300, Clifford header, true duals w/ 26" Smithys
1988 Mustang GT AOD vert, 15.810 @ 88.871 mph 100% stock w/ no traction, 4.10s being installed
1976 Silverline Comoro 18' trihull ski boat, 188 hp 302 I/O, another toy
http://all.at/mustang
https://mustangsandmore.com/ubb/I65Stang.html

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-06-2001 08:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good point Tim,

No, it's a "fair weather" driver now, and she can live with a bigger cam. But I want to keep the power curve in the 4500-6500 range with the 5 speed. No sense camming it for 7000 when the bottom end isn't up to it. The stock shot-peened & mag'd rods are the weak link in this engine. I'm planning on deepening the stock oil pan & pickup tube while I'm there. Any tips on baffeling? Should they run all the way across the pan, or 7/8s way and then another behind it that starts from the other side of the pan? Like a rat's maze? Thanks again,

SteveW

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 777
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-06-2001 10:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve,

The pan I used before the stud girdle was baffled on all side around the pickup but each baffle was hinged so that it would only swing open if the gate on that side was not under any G forces. I'm not sure if that can be a do it yourself project or not.

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-06-2001 10:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jas,

Do you still have it? And do you wanta donate it to the cause? Or at least sell it cheap?

SteveW

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JAAZZY
Gearhead

Posts: 777
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 08-06-2001 11:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JAAZZY     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Steve,

I was planning to sell it but it was a lot of money(at least for me) so I don't know about cheap. I think I paid about $250 for it and would still be using it if it wasn't for that darn girdle. I ended up buying another similar one for $200 that was designed to clear the girdle. I was going to list it on Ebay this coming week. How much are you willing to "donate" to my keep the 65 on the road fund?

[This message has been edited by JAAZZY (edited 08-06-2001).]

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-06-2001 11:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jas,

E-mail me and we'll negotiate.

Thanks,

SteveW

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Butch Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 624
From: No. California
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 08-07-2001 10:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Butch Jennings   Click Here to Email Butch Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Steve,

May I suggest a cam for you?

I've used Ultradyne cams for years and love them. http://www.ultradyne.com/

They have a grind that's 238/248 @ .050 .517/.536 lift on a 112 center that would be very streetable. It's very similar to your 282s with more exhaust duration and a wider center.

If streetability isn't much of a concern anymore then they have a grind that's 243/251 @ .050 .562/.565 lift on a 106 center. This grind will have a much rougher idle and less torque down low (might help) but will make a ton of power in the middle.

I've had them move the lobe centers around for me in the past. If it were my car (lol...Larry) I'd call them and have them move the center on the 243/251 to 110 and run that one. The 110 center will flatten the torque curve where the 106 will have a more "peaky" torque curve.

If you didn't want to limit the rpm under 7000 I love their 255/264 grind on a 108.

Bottom line....I'd put a set of Eagle rods in it and run the 255/264 grind if it were me. If you want to run the stock rods and limit the rpm to 7000 tops, then the 243/251 ground on a 110 would be a good compromise from where you are now. If you want to keep it very streetable then I'd go with the 238/248 on a 112.

That's my 2-cents.

------------------
Butch
460 powered 1967 Comet Cyclone
10.271 @ 130.069
Butcher's Home Page
"Friends don't let friends drive Chevys"

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-07-2001 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Eagle rods would be nice, but not in the cards this year. Thanks for the cam tips Butch

What do you all think about baffle designs in the deepened front sump pan?

SteveW

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Butch Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 624
From: No. California
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 08-07-2001 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Butch Jennings   Click Here to Email Butch Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I welded a couple of simple baffles in front and behind the pickup area on my 460. I welded them in like shelves not like walls, if that makes any sense...lol. I didn't do anything trick, was just trying to help keep the oil from climbing out of the sump. I really should put a good pan on it, I was out of money (and moving) when I got it together and I hate taking the engine out when it's not broken Pulling the engine would allow me to trim my towers a little more for plug socket clearance though.

------------------
Butch
460 powered 1967 Comet Cyclone
10.271 @ 130.069
Butcher's Home Page
"Friends don't let friends drive Chevys"

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-07-2001 09:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TomP,

Thanks for the tips on oil pan construction via e-mail! I'd have never thought to do it that way. Do you mind if I share your words of wisdom? That's a bunch of $$$ we can spend on a cam, or something else to give more power to the project. Tom's "da man" when it comes to do it yourself'ers.

SteveW

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steve'66
Gearhead

Posts: 8826
From: Sonoma,CA,USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 08-18-2001 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for steve'66   Click Here to Email steve'66     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Update,

Got the engine out this morning, and pulled the intake. Sure enough the intake gaskets on the offending cylinders are cracked open on the bottom, and there's oil in the intake passages of the Edel heads. So... I'm gonna stop right there, fix the intake gasket leak. Then modify the oil pan to 7 qts with some baffeling, and install the t-5, scattershield, cable clutch/pedals, etc. That should be enough "fun" for this old man. Thanks for the tips everyone!

SteveW

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Butch Jennings
Gearhead

Posts: 624
From: No. California
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 08-18-2001 03:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Butch Jennings   Click Here to Email Butch Jennings     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Good deal Steve, glad to hear it's not the guides.

------------------
Butch
460 powered 1967 Comet Cyclone
10.271 @ 130.069
Butcher's Home Page
"Friends don't let friends drive Chevys"

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Doc
Gearhead

Posts: 466
From: Redwood City, Ca. USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 08-18-2001 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Doc   Click Here to Email Doc     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You might wanna spend a few minutes making sure the intake and heads are the same angle, the intake might be tighter at the top letting the gasket flutter and break at the bottom.

------------------
If you had a rubber cam would it get wilder as the RPMs go up?

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