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  noise using crane gold roller rockers on 351C

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Author Topic:   noise using crane gold roller rockers on 351C
Mark From Detroit
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From:
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-18-2001 09:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark From Detroit   Click Here to Email Mark From Detroit     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has anyone used Crane Gold roller rockers on a 351C and had excessive ticking 2800 rpm and up? I have used different roller rockers on small blocks and were quiet. I believe it is do to the canted valves side loading the rockers which seem to rub the studs and locknuts and the fulcrum slams against the side bearings of the rockers.


Mark

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jkilroy
Gearhead

Posts: 1808
From: Vicksburg, MS
Registered: Dec 99

posted 07-18-2001 11:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jkilroy   Click Here to Email jkilroy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think that this qualifies as a "problem". The rocker studs should be on pads such that the tip of the rocker is square to the valve tip. There should not be any side loading. Did the heads originally have rocker studs or pedestals? The thought being if you had the heads machined for studs maybe they were not cut correctly. Can you actually see rub marks where there is metal to metal contact? Are the rockers new or used? Do you have the right size poly locks on the rockers, they come in different sizes based on the width of the slot in the rocker itself.

The first place to look is at the valve train geometry.

How is the roller tip to valve contact? When the valve travels through the entire lift range is the roller tip getting close to the edeges of the valve?

How about push rod length?

------------------
Jay Kilroy
68' Fastback GT 390
"No such thing as a cam thats too big"

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 43151
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 07-19-2001 06:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've always heard Crane roller rockers were, lets just say, not the best.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 813
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 07-19-2001 06:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are you talking about the investment cast Crane's or the gold race rockers? While we're on the subject, what are the better Cleveland roller rockers? Are the stainless steel rockers the best (Crower, Norris, Comp Cams)?

Dan Jones

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jkilroy
Gearhead

Posts: 1808
From: Vicksburg, MS
Registered: Dec 99

posted 07-19-2001 06:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jkilroy   Click Here to Email jkilroy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't like the Crane rockers as much as I like the Crower parts but I am sure they are a quality part.

Anyway, if there was a problem with the rockers I would expect one, MAYBE two bad units, but not all 16 by any stretch. Either the units are not the correct ones for the application or there is some other issue with the valvetrain geometry.

------------------
Jay Kilroy
68' Fastback GT 390
"No such thing as a cam thats too big"

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 07-19-2001 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I really like my Crower stainless rockers on my C. They are heavier overall than an aluminum rocker, but the part over the valve is much lighter making for less actual weight for the spring to control. Most of the mass is centered over the stud.

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Daniel Jones
Gearhead

Posts: 813
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: Aug 99

posted 07-19-2001 06:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daniel Jones   Click Here to Email Daniel Jones     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kid,

Are the Crower rockers louder than the aluminum roller rockers? It seems like steel might transmit more noise.

Dan

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SteveLaRiviere
Administrator

Posts: 43151
From: Saco, Maine
Registered: May 99

posted 07-19-2001 06:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SteveLaRiviere   Click Here to Email SteveLaRiviere     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have the Crower stainless steel rollers, too. They are nice pieces.

The Comp Cam steel rollers look good, too.

My buddy has broken a couple of the Crane rollers on his brand x, and they are real sloppy at the trunnion/roller bearing area.

------------------
'70 Mustang Mach 1 M code 351C 4V/FMX/3.25 open
'72 Mustang Sprint Coupe 351C 4V/FMX/4.30 Trac Lok
'94 F-150 XL 5.8L/E4OD/3.55 Limited Slip
'97 Probe GTS 2.5L DOHC
Ford. The closer you look, the better WE look!

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Mark From Detroit
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From:
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-19-2001 10:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark From Detroit   Click Here to Email Mark From Detroit     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am using brand new crane gold race series roller rockers. I do have the geometry setup perfect. After 75 miles and all this noise I removed the rockers for inspection and see the gold is worn off the rocker body top from the locks and on the bottom from the studs. I am using cranes guidplate conversion as well. As steve says the fulcrum is pretty sloppy side to side causing all this trouble. I originally bought Harland Sharp bought could not get them to fit properly. I thought the Crane gold was a high quility product. I have called Crane and Jegs they said "never heard of that problem". I just wanted to see if I was alone on this problem or if others had the same problem. Im not sure what to do at this point. I just want the problem solved so I can cruise in the Stang.

Mark

[This message has been edited by Mark From Detroit (edited 07-20-2001).]

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jkilroy
Gearhead

Posts: 1808
From: Vicksburg, MS
Registered: Dec 99

posted 07-20-2001 12:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jkilroy   Click Here to Email jkilroy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Something is not right with those parts, send those puppies back and I suggest sooner rather than later. I have never seen a set of rockers wear that bad in such a short period of time. I would request a full refund or at least credit towards a different set.

------------------
Jay Kilroy
68' Fastback GT 390
"No such thing as a cam thats too big"

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bluestreek
Gearhead

Posts: 1724
From: Athens,GA
Registered: Jul 2001

posted 07-20-2001 01:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bluestreek   Click Here to Email bluestreek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is simple stuff to check , but may help.. If you are having problems with all of the rockers, I would tend to believe that there must be some kind of geometry problem.. You should check your valve spring tolerances at full lift..There should be at least .020 clearance between your spring coils at full lift.. Also, you should have pushrod quideplates and hardened pushrods installed to take care of pushrod deflection.. The next thing to check would be the rocker slot tolerances.. At full lift and at no lift, you must make sure that the stud is not hitting the ends of the slots..Even if the heads were set up perfectly in the shop, wrong pushrods lengths or lifters can screw it all up..Last think to check is your hydraulic lifter preload (hydraulic lifters only).. At the lowest point on the cam lobe, I recommend 1/2 turn of preload for daily driving and 1/4 turn for racing..
I know these are simple suggestions, but had to mention them in case you overlooked them..

Dan

[This message has been edited by bluestreek (edited 07-20-2001).]

[This message has been edited by bluestreek (edited 07-20-2001).]

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Mark From Detroit
Journeyman

Posts: 29
From:
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 07-20-2001 05:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mark From Detroit   Click Here to Email Mark From Detroit     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I talked to Crane twice about my problem and they were going to send me smaller diameter lock nuts which I dont feel will not correct all my problems. I asked Jegs about returning them they said they have no use for used rocker arms and lets wait and see what the smaller lock nuts will do. If I can get a refund or credit I guess I will try another brand. I have not seen the Crower brand rockers. Where can they be purchased? Any other recomedations on roller rocker arms? Comp Cams Pro Magnums?


Mark

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kid vishus
Gearhead

Posts: 6098
From: middle of NC
Registered: Oct 2000

posted 07-20-2001 08:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for kid vishus   Click Here to Email kid vishus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I bought my Crower rockers from Summitt. They weren't listed in the catalog, but they had them in stock.

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